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Thread: So...is SCAR16 done for?

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Bell View Post
    Exactly. People need to realize that recognizing that there are better rifles out there (like the SCAR) is not the same thing as saying the military should blow scarce funds on them. As long as the military is wedded to .223 I suspect they will tough it out with the Ar-15 system, fleas and all.
    An apt summation, in my view.

    AC
    Stand your ground; don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here. -- Captain John Parker, Lexington, 1775.

  2. #102
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    I think QuietShootr and Greg nailed it here...

    What parts have been breaking on civilian SCAR 16s? Again, just looking for some data. I understand some folks have a strong desire to have extra parts on hand - do you need all those parts if the ones on the original gun last for 20,000 or 30,000 rounds? How many people will actually shoot that much (I know some here will) on the same gun?

    Spooky

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by R Moran View Post
    Not really, the gun has been in service for over 40 years.

    Why is that the 1911 served for over 70, is a testament to JMB and how good the gun is, same for the M1, M2, 1903, etc.

    But, the M16fow serving for over 40, is a testament to how F'ed up the Army is..

    Bob
    I don't think it is a testament that Army is f-d up. No matter how good 1911 is and how much I am fond of it, neither Army nor units who were loyal to it are fielding it anymore. You don't carry it anymore either, Bob.

    SCAR was designed with intent to be more reliable and more serviceable than M16, just like Glocks are more reliable and more serviceable than 1911s en masse. The difference is that SCAR was never given a chance to be fielded widely enough to truly prove or disprove that, to work out the kinks that M16 had 40 years to fix, and to let non-civilian users to form a truly informed opinion. How many MK-16s were fielded, 1000, for a period of 2-3 months, before they were canned? Is it really enough?

  4. #104
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    Is the SCAR 16 dead? No.

    Is it "better" then the M4? I'm not saying it is or it isn't, as I have no opinion on the matter. However, what we do know is that the Military has been "testing" the SCAR for a while now. It has been lab tested, and field tested. It has been used in combat in the real world. And still, at the end of the day, after all that testing and money spent, there is still a fairly new RFP for a new individual carbine that is being run concurrently with the M4 PIP. Obviously, not everyone agrees about "better."
    We'll see.

  5. #105
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    Exactly my sentiments on the issue..Saved me time to boot since I did not have to write it...

    Quote Originally Posted by QuietShootr View Post
    I think it's useful to realize that there are really two different points being argued here;

    1) the SCAR-L is not a HUGE improvement over an M4 - but it is a measurable improvement. Is it worth the money? Probably not.

    2) the SCAR-H IS a huge leap forward over all the other 7.62mm "battle rifles" available. The SR25EMC and LMT MWS, as nice as they are, are evolutionary improvements. They're both very accurate, but only one has a quick-change barrel - and that one doesn't have a folding stock or fully ambidextrous controls (remember the charging handle). Not to mention its weight - a SCAR-H's curb weight with no scope is 7.8 pounds, an LMT is 10. Doesn't mean much on a bench, in fact there you WANT the extra weight - but I have never heard anyone in the infantry (or anywhere else for that matter) say "Gosh, I wish this weapon weighed more."

  6. #106
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    Quick change barrels are a gimmick to all but a very few Military users. The ones that know the mission enough in advance and have time and a range to confirm zero when they change it out.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd.K View Post
    Quick change barrels are a gimmick to all but a very few Military users. The ones that know the mission enough in advance and have time and a range to confirm zero when they change it out.
    Like the SOCOM guys the SCAR was designed for?

    Rhino

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by RHINOWSO View Post
    Like the SOCOM guys the SCAR was designed for?

    Rhino
    These are the same guys who can't seem to agree weather or not it's "better" across the board.

  9. #109
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    I think the real issue is the price-to-improvement ratio. Piston guns are usually better when SBR'd and suppressed. Sounds like the SCAR is perfect for that role. Should the military spend more for a standard weapon that really doesn't offer a major improvement? That is the issue.

    That is also an issue that will be debated for a long time.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Edwards View Post
    These are the same guys who can't seem to agree weather or not it's "better" across the board.
    Yes - In my experience the whole special operations community is very independent and it's hard to get them (NSW in particular) to standardize on much of anything...

    Rhino

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