Acceptable accuracy of shooter

[tb-av]

Can someone give me an idea of what is acceptable accuracy for a small CCW type handgun.

Several threads are going on about precision and accuracy of a weapon but what is acceptable for the shooter.

My CCW is Walter PPS. By most all accounts this is an accurate weapon.

Here is where I stand and I would like to know just how much better an excellent shooter would be. I'm basically trying to figure out what the targets would look like if 10 different accomplished shooters did this.

No time limit. No stress. Standard over the counter ammo like WWB
10 shots

7.5 Yards - I can now keep 10 shots in the black on a target that has 5.5" black B-8(c) 25yrd Repair center to be exact. The final group will most likely fit in a 3.5" circle just not centered up so I still need that entire 5.5" ( I honestly believe I will be able to take an inch off that in the near future.

25yrds - 12" circle - I can land 8 of 10 in the circle. There will be no real rhyme or reason as to where they land and 8 of 10 is about the best I will do repeatedly.

So if you are a good shot, can you tell me what you expect from yourself if you walked up to either of these scenarios.

I've seen great shooters in BullsEye matches but i'm looking for what constitutes normal everyday results from a basic weapon so I can try to set some realistic goals and maybe start identifying my next level of what needs fixing.

Thanks for your help.

TB

[Zhurdan]

One small problem with this... In regards to CCW, Time IS a factor. Stress IS a factor when it comes down to defensive shooting. There won't be any time for breathing and shaking the nerves out prior to pulling the trigger. That's why I train with a shot timer. One other thing I like to do is get my heart rate up prior to doing a drill.

As far as proficiency, at 7 yards, I can keep them in about the size of the bottom of a pop can at an accelerated rate of fire, but for the most part, if you hit what you are aiming at, and do it multiple times, in a short amount of time, that's what counts.

[tb-av]

That's makes sense but I feel like I need a base line to demonstrate to myself that I have the basics down. I just don't know how good, "good" is.

I definitely can't hit the bottom of a coke can reliably. I especially could not it quickly and stressed.

I do have a shot timer but am yet to use it.

My concern was say having a paper plate and I could hit it reliably, quickly, etc.. I still would not know how small my group of shots should/could be without first getting my basics down solid.

So I do want to try what you are suggesting. Pushups or whatever to get my arms shaking, but I want to know what is a "good to very good everyday" basis to build from.

EDIT: and with regard to CCW, that is more a reference to a compact short barrel handgun. Compact Glock, PPS, small revolver, etc. NOT a larger more inherently accurate weapon.

[Jim D]

"Good" to me is 600+ on this:
http://www.firearmstrainingandtactic...read.php?t=267

550 or better is probably just fine, but my goal is to break 650.

Being able to break 600 on demand, every time, is better than most.

[tb-av]

Thanks, I'll try that one. Might have a problem with the prone. We have a low berm 3/4 way to the 25yrd backstop. I might can do it on the very end position.

[Backstop]

That's makes sense but I feel like I need a base line to demonstrate to myself that I have the basics down. I just don't know how good, "good" is.

My advice is to stop comparing yourself to other shooters, and compare yourself to standards an instructor endorses.

I think these provide a good base line: http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/standards.htm

And there are more here: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=16760

[C4IGrant]

I follow the simple and easy rule that I need to be able to shoot 2.5-3" groups at 25yds. The reason for this is because everything doubles under stress (like someone trying to kill you). So that means that I will shoot 5-6 inches. Anything larger than that and I won't be able to put a round in the head. YMMV



C4

[tb-av]

Damn, I've got a long way to go..

Now just to be clear again. You guys are doing this with compact guns?

I mean I've seen that guy on YouTube shoot the PPS out past 50 yards but what I'm hearing is I need to get my shots consistently into the 10 ring on a B-8 target at 25 yards no stress.

I can tell that's going to be quite an ordeal.

[C4IGrant]

Damn, I've got a long way to go..

Now just to be clear again. You guys are doing this with compact guns?

I mean I've seen that guy on YouTube shoot the PPS out past 50 yards but what I'm hearing is I need to get my shots consistently into the 10 ring on a B-8 target at 25 yards no stress.

I can tell that's going to be quite an ordeal.

To be honest, you are talking to some guys on this forum (like coolbreeze) that shoot a lot, have a lot of training and just flat out have "ability". So this isn't your "average" gun forum where people struggle to hit dirt.

I shoot my PPS BETTER than I shoot my full size M&P. So yes, we are talking about guns with 2.5" barrels, 3" barrels, 4" barrels, etc.

I have shot my PPS at over 85yds and hit a 10X12 plate with ease (is almost boring how accurate this little gun is).


Take some training from instructors that stress accuracy. Vickers and Hackathorn would be my first two choices. Then practice. Then practice some more. Then after about a solid year of attending training classes and PRACTICING what you have learned, you will see pretty good growth in your ability.



C4

[tb-av]

I have shot my PPS at over 85yds and hit a 10X12 plate with ease (is almost boring how accurate this little gun is).

Ok, you're just trying to make me feel bad now, lol.

No, I understand now. I just wasn't sure. Like I said, I've seen BullsEye targets and those guys "target" was basically the X ring. I just wasn't sure about everyday style guns.

On the subject of training and the PPS. Would you consider it an acceptable gun to take training with or would something with more capacity be a better choice?

This is kind of what I'm trying to get set up for. To prepare myself for a class or two.