870P vs. 590a1?

[WS6]

El Cid,

I would assume that the extractor is not the problem unless you could work the slide and have the shell still remain stuck in the chamber, as opposed to the slide and the shell both being stuck at the same time.

I have only experienced a shell sticking in the chamber one time, and the slide was also stuck. It turned out that we were shooting so many rounds over a short period of time that the chamber area of the barrel had gotten hot enough to soften (as in partially melt) the outer layer of the plastic hull, and then the shotgun was left unfired with this shell still in the chamber just long enough for the plastic to cool and become sort of 'glued' to the inside of the chamber. After allowing the shotgun's barrel to cool down, the problem went away.

Could this have been your agency's problem, too?

I'm going to agree and say this is a chamber or use-pattern issue. Extraction seems robust if it's hanging onto that shell.

[El Cid]

El Cid,

I would assume that the extractor is not the problem unless you could work the slide and have the shell still remain stuck in the chamber, as opposed to the slide and the shell both being stuck at the same time.

I have only experienced a shell sticking in the chamber one time, and the slide was also stuck. It turned out that we were shooting so many rounds over a short period of time that the chamber area of the barrel had gotten hot enough to soften (as in partially melt) the outer layer of the plastic hull, and then the shotgun was left unfired with this shell still in the chamber just long enough for the plastic to cool and become sort of 'glued' to the inside of the chamber. After allowing the shotgun's barrel to cool down, the problem went away.

Could this have been your agency's problem, too?

Thinking back, you may be right. The slide wouldn't move either. Not sure if the rounds are melting but this happens during a regular qualification course. This would consist of 16 total rounds. We have people with significantly more gunsmithing backgrounds/experience than me and they aren't able to address it. All I know is I don't want a 5 shot weapon if I have to worry about it not doing what I need it to.

[Glock17JHP]

Try shooting with several different brands of shells... I seem to recall we mainly had it with one particular loading, so perhaps it is the plastic used in a specific load...

[USAFCATM]

The simple solution...



Actually, the Mossberg is the same M-590 (no, not the 590A1...those came in later) we carried in the Marines back in the late 80's and the 870 is an older Wingmaster that pre-dates the Police series and is chambered for 2 3/4" shells only.
Really, it's not much more than a personal choice and there are pros and cons each camp will mention about the other. 870 owners will cite the plastic safety on the Mossberg being breakage prone (and they are which is why I already replaced mine with a steel one) that is a pretty cheap fix. Mossberg owners will counter with "so tell me about that J-lock safety again..." in regards to the Remington. The top safety of the Mossberg is more ambidextrous than the Remington but the safety of the Remington works better if you are going to use a stock with a pistol grip like the factory folder or Speedfeed stocks. As far as the receiver goes, Mossberg fans will say it's lighter, doesn't rust and is just as durable since the bolt locks into the barrel ala-AR-15 style. Remington backers will counter that the steel receiver is less prone to damage and has a smoother action. Mossberg will counter that part of the 870s smoother action relies on a carrier dog spring to raise the shell lifter while the Mossberg uses a camming action that while not as smooth, does not rely on a more fragile spring. Remington backers will say that the shell catches and ejector are staked in leading to fewer parts that can be lost. Mossberg backers will counter that the problem with the Remington is that these parts ARE staked in. While not as prone to loss, they are harder to replace and there is only so much steel in the receiver that will allow you to restake these parts before the receiver is shot. The Remington has more accessories available for it. The Mossberg has a 1-piece magazine tube. The lifter on the Mossberg rides against the bolt to prevent malfunctions that would otherwise tie up an 870. The Remington backers counter that their lifter prevents dirt from getting into the action and with the flex tab conversion, shells caught between a closed bolt and lifter are a problem of the past. The Mossberg will counter with the fact that you still have to clear that shell off the lifter before you can continue reloading.
As you see, it's the eternal Ford/Chevy debate and there is going to be no end to it any time soon. They both have their strengths and weakness's like anything else does so it's just a matter of looking at those areas that are important to you and going from there. Like I said, me, I couldn't make up my mind and have several examples of both makers. Then again, how about a couple others just to make this water a bit more muddy. Maybe something like...


Winchester 1200 Defender

or maybe something like...


Ithaca M37.

So are we totally confused yet???

[snake eater 332]

I'm a big fan of the Mossberg 590A1 for tactical use and/or HD. My PD carries 14" Mossberg 590A1's for duty use in our cruisers. We used to carry the Remington 870's for duty, but we switched to the Mossbergs several years ago. I'm not sure why we did so. However, I prefer the Mossberg to the Remington...to me the Mossberg seems more sturdy and solid and I like the placement of the safety better with a rifle stock. I think that the Remington may be better if you're dead set on using a pistol grip due to its safety location.

Below is my personal 14" barrel 12 gauge Mossberg 590A1 with factory ghost ring sights, Hogue youth stock, Surefire 621FA Forend Weaponlight, Blackhawk front sling adapter, Specter Gear 3-point tactical sling, and 3GunGear.com 7-Shell Side Saddle, which has a nylon side saddle with elasticized shell holders backed with velcro that affixes to a base on the shotgun receiver. The side saddle carrier allows single-hand removal and attachment so that additional side saddle carriers can be carried on tactical vests or plate carriers and your ammo source can be easily replenished. It has an overall lenght (OAL) of 35 inches, which is a nice compact size for manuevering inside a house or building.

[RiggerGod]

I own both and can say fairly confidently your won't be or feel under armed with either. I started off w/ M500/590 series in the Mil. and transitioned over to the 870 in the LE world.
I prefer the slide release on the 590.
I prefer the thumb safety on the 870.
The 590 is great if you want to keep a traditional stock. If you want the pistol grip option an 870 is needed.
Also in my opinion you can't beat a 14" barrel. For me the difference in handling is night and day. Now that I have one for work I'll never go back to an 18" again. Need to start doing the paper work so I can do my personal guns.
Just my two centavos.

[El Cid]

Try shooting with several different brands of shells... I seem to recall we mainly had it with one particular loading, so perhaps it is the plastic used in a specific load...

LOL! Yea, that's not really an option. Their gun - their shells. Doesn't concern me though. I signed out an M4.

[Moose-Knuckle]

I'm a big fan of the Mossberg 590A1 for tactical use and/or HD. My PD carries 14" Mossberg 590A1's for duty use in our cruisers. We used to carry the Remington 870's for duty, but we switched to the Mossbergs several years ago. I'm not sure why we did so. However, I prefer the Mossberg to the Remington...to me the Mossberg seems more sturdy and solid and I like the placement of the safety better with a rifle stock. I think that the Remington may be better if you're dead set on using a pistol grip due to its safety location.

Below is my personal 14" barrel 12 gauge Mossberg 590A1 with factory ghost ring sights, Hogue youth stock, Surefire 621FA Forend Weaponlight, Blackhawk front sling adapter, Specter Gear 3-point tactical sling, and 3GunGear.com 7-Shell Side Saddle, which has a nylon side saddle with elasticized shell holders backed with velcro that affixes to a base on the shotgun receiver. The side saddle carrier allows single-hand removal and attachment so that additional side saddle carriers can be carried on tactical vests or plate carriers and your ammo source can be easily replenished. It has an overall lenght (OAL) of 35 inches, which is a nice compact size for manuevering inside a house or building.

That is how it's done. Bravo sir, nice boom stick.

[onado2000]

I love my 590A1, no major issues w/ 3 years and a thousand + rounds. Its also fun to attach my OKC3S bayonet .

[WS6]

Well, I bought one of my friends a 590a1 SPX and got to shoot it some. Impressions:

-After being racked 2-300 times, it smooths up nicely as all the parts wear in.

-The bayonet flies off if you fire it with it attached.

-The barrel is a brick out-house. Love/hate relationship with it.

-FliteControl will shoot a 7-10" pattern at 40 yards. (damn impressed!)

-Regular buckshot groups decently. 00 did better with it than it did from my M4S90 w/MOD choke. Kindof butthurt about that.

-It groups slugs very accurately (standing/off-hand was able to cut large holes in target at 40 yards).

-Magazine spring gets pretty weak feeling after a few hundred rounds.

-Front sight is canted 3-5*.




Over-all, I think it's a great shotgun, but I am going to go with an 870P from either Vang Comp or Nighthawk. It WILL cost more, but I feel that I will enjoy it more.