Training????

[Surf]

I hesitate to post in these types of threads, but there is validity in some of the techniques that they are trying to teach. Not saying that I am comfortable with their safety / overall handling however there is a good relation or very similar techniques in more advanced combat shooting, especially up close stuff. However the context in which it is used and the skill of the shooter and fully understanding basic fundamentals, concepts, intermediate and advanced shooting skills and safety handling is critical. I don't think you should teach a new shooter who's safety handling is still questionable to use such techniques, even though they might look effective for hits up close. That is only part of the puzzle.

I prefer more common terms that are a bit more accepted in the shooting community as valid techniques especially when regards to aiming the weapon but a lot of it is based off of some type of indexing which still has some degree of visual confirmation of the weapon which can still be considered aimed fire, as opposed to classic point shooting which is often confused with actual aimed or visual confirmation of the weapons orientation.

Of course there are ECQC techniques that are valid where you may never see the weapon but that is generally bad breath / contact distance. I just get a bit bothered when some instructors / companies attempt to package their techniques as something they created or packaged into a "system", label it as their own and often refer to it being better than sliced bread. I will admit that some instructors / groups do this to a much lesser degree than others.\

ETA - Just to clarify there is validity in body mechanics in getting the weapon quickly in the quick orientation of the target during the presentation of the weapon, however the visual confirmation of the weapon using some type of "aimed fire" (flash front sight, slide indexing etc) is the norm. As has been mentioned Mr. Middlebrooks is very good at this, but IMO he is still using a type of aimed fire and not point shooting as he refers to it as. Language does not detract from the skill of what he does however.

[Preliator]

Though I have found myself from time to time "dogpiling" some one on an online forum.

The general idea that is being taught here is pretty valid, I feel pretty confident that anything inside of 7 yards I can put rounds on target with out ever seeing the sights. Good on you Jay for pushing that out to 10, I am not quite there yet.

Lots of unsafe things going on there, I dont think any of us would argue that. I certainly like to see new techniques, that is how we evolve, some one comes up with something just a little bit better. Any how, I will continue to use my sights to build muscle memory - but glad to see different ways of doing things.

[gringop]

Some of the things that he said made sense in a certain context. If somebody came to me and said, "I've never fired a gun before, but I need you to teach me how to defend myself and you only have four hours to do it" I'd teach them point-shooting. Or whatever it's called.

Can you clarify this? You would teach them never to use their sights? To take the sights off of the gun like the Video guy?
Or would you teach them that they don't need a hard front sight focus on a close target?

RE. the video, I see the guy make torso sized steel ring at 10 yards one shot each while standing flat footed with no draw and no concealment. Not that good.

"I can draw fast and I can draw accurately and put 3 attackers down with no problem"

Maybe, if they give up from single peripheral hits from a pistol. Clown shoes all over that video.

Gringop

[Jay Cunningham]

It's hypothetical, dude. Nobody is ever going to come to me and tell me that I only have four hours to make them a "gunfighter"...

But hypothetically - for someone who's never fired a handgun before in their life - if they did I'd teach them to punch the handgun out at chin level with the elbows locked, focus on the threat and press the trigger. And I'd drill it along with trigger control for four hours and send them on their merry way.

The point (I think) of my previous commentary is that just because the video comes off as "clown shoes" doesn't invalidate *some* of the concepts that the guy mentioned, IMO.

But dogpile on, bro - that's what the DramaNet is for!

[Str8Jacket722]

anybody else hear that? That was the sound of a piece of my soul dying.