H2 or H3 buffer?

[persona non grata]

What are you talking about? H3 is on of the heaviest ones. Have you actually shot a middy with various buffers before?

I use a 6.5 ounce buffer without a suppressor, and an 8 ounce buffer when shooting with a suppressor.

Is the condescending tone necessary?
Have YOU actually shot a middy with a buffer heavier than an H3?

[Iraqgunz]

Your previous post makes no sense. Maybe it's just me. I have only shot middies with H, H2 and H3.

Unless you are using the new Vltor set up, a heavier one makes no sense at all.

I use a 6.5 ounce buffer without a suppressor, and an 8 ounce buffer when shooting with a suppressor.

Is the condescending tone necessary?
Have YOU actually shot a middy with a buffer heavier than an H3?

[Hmac]

My 16-inch Light Recce Basic c/VIS (mid length) came with an H buffer and apparently standard carbine spring. Especially with a BattleComp, the recoil is negligible. I tried to improve it by using an H2. It made no difference to me in felt recoil, and it did cycle PMC Bronze in a 1000 round course just fine. OTOH, my 11.5 carbine with a blue buffer spring definitely shoots softer to me with an H2. I've tried an H3 but can't feel any difference over the H2, and I did get an occasional failure with the H3.

We're all trying to apply some kind of repeatable set of rules here. I just think there are too many variables - ammo, spring, BCG, receiver, gas system, barrel length, muzzle device for it to make any sense to try to prove that our own particular anecdote is more valid than anyone else's.

[Iraqgunz]

Let me just say this. Last summer BCM sent markm a 14.5" middy upper to test out. We put different loads into it and used different buffers- all the way to H3. With an H3 using M855 it seemed like it was shooting in slow motion, albeit it was reliable.

persona non grata- is trying to say that he was using buffers that were significantly heavier and I don't even see how the weapon would function. The exception would be if he was using the Vltor A5 system.

The whole purpose behind the heavier buffers is to get one that works reliably and cures some of the beating up that a carbine will take. It's not a contest to see who can use the heaviest one, although it seems that way as of late.

In the OP's case I would probably stay with the H2 unless he is shooting it suppressed.

My 16-inch Light Recce Basic c/VIS (mid length) came with an H buffer and apparently standard carbine spring. Especially with a BattleComp, the recoil is negligible. I tried to improve it by using an H2. It made no difference to me in felt recoil, and it did cycle PMC Bronze in a 1000 round course just fine. OTOH, my 11.5 carbine with a blue buffer spring definitely shoots softer to me with an H2. I've tried an H3 but can't feel any difference over the H2, and I did get an occasional failure with the H3.

We're all trying to apply some kind of repeatable set of rules here. I just think there are too many variables - ammo, spring, BCG, receiver, gas system, barrel length, muzzle device for it to make any sense to try to prove that our own particular anecdote is more valid than anyone else's.

[Hmac]

The whole purpose behind the heavier buffers is to get one that works reliably and cures some of the beating up that a carbine will take. It's not a contest to see who can use the heaviest one, although it seems that way as of late.

I agree. And it's an area that generates far more contention than seems reasonable. Your approach seems reasonable to me and is the one that I have used. A heavy buffer isn't the holy grail for me, optimal recoil management is. On my mid-length, I let Noveske do my thinking for me. On building my SBR, I experimented til I found what I liked. I have at least a few buffers of various weights sitting around on my workbench, but I believe in only chasing one variable at a time - I refuse to obsess over springs.

[BufordTJustice]

Let me just say this. Last summer BCM sent markm a 14.5" middy upper to test out. We put different loads into it and used different buffers- all the way to H3. With an H3 using M855 it seemed like it was shooting in slow motion, albeit it was reliable.

persona non grata- is trying to say that he was using buffers that were significantly heavier and I don't even see how the weapon would function. The exception would be if he was using the Vltor A5 system.

The whole purpose behind the heavier buffers is to get one that works reliably and cures some of the beating up that a carbine will take. It's not a contest to see who can use the heaviest one, although it seems that way as of late.

In the OP's case I would probably stay with the H2 unless he is shooting it suppressed.

IG,

I totally agree with your recs for the OP and I cannot speak for the setup of persona-non-grata's rifle...but I have been running buffers as heavy as 8.3oz on my carbine length stock.

I use a BCM 14.5" middy w/ FSC556, Spike's carbine lower, and Spike's/Fail Zero BCG (and FZ coated hammer). I have had 100% reliability with Federal XM193.

I started with Slash at Heavybuffers.net. He crafted a SS buffer body with a continuous diameter equal to the 'spring shoulder' diameter of a normal carbine buffer body (the shoulder located immediately behind the head of the buffer body).

With a cavity inside that holds three normal carbine weights, I installed up to 3 tungsten weights (from a disassembled G&R H3 buffer). 3 Tungsten weights brought he entire buffer assembly's weight to ~8.3oz. At that weight, and using a Tubbs flatwire buffer spring, I was 100% w/ American Eagle 55gr, PMC Bronze 55gr, and Federal XM193. I only had a few failures to extract (short stroke) on Tula 55gr 223.

I have since replaced one tungsten weight with a steel weight, bringing overall weight to ~7.3 (with the reciprocating 'guts' of a std H2 carbine buffer). This has brought me to 100% reliability with all rounds (except for the occasional hard tula primer).

The entire reason I embarked on this journey started with my Spike's FZ coated BCG and hammer.

My above mentioned BCM upper used to have a CMT MP/HP BCG running a Tubbs flatwire buffer spring and an H3 carbine buffer from Grant. I took a chance on the Spike's NiB (FZ) coated BCG.

Upon first shooting the NiB BCG, I immediately noticed what felt like a noticeable increase in the sharpness of the recoil stroke...that and my red dot seemed to jump around with a LOT more vigor while running Tula 55gr 223. Thinking it may all be in my head, I handed to my buddy (3 tours in Iraq w/ the Air Cav 1st/7th) who has had ample trigger time on my gun and on many other combat rifles. I stated nothing of the BCG change (he and I are both LEO's and were working on weapon transitions). Without prompting, he asked me if I was running training ammo or the XM193 he and I had bought cases of from Palmetto Armory. I asked why he asked and he stated the recoil stroke felt different.

Needless to say, the entire focus of our range trip changed. Both he and I A/B'd the two BCG's in my upper and also in his BCM 14.5" M4-clone w/ permed A2x (also running an H3 w/ a tubbs flatwire buffer spring). He and I both agreed that the Spike's BCG, while 100% reliable, caused recoil to feel sharper and caused both of the guns to move around more.

While using the Spike's BCG with my 7.3oz buffer, the gun runs so smoothly, that it has become difficult to tell the difference between XM193, PMC bronze, and Tula 55gr...other than the muzzle blast/flash. This was interesting to me that the increased weight of the buffer caused the difference in the recoil strokes of the above listed rounds to be diminished. This effect, too, was verified by my buddy and by my wife by having another blindly and randomly load a PMAG w/ all three of the rounds. Each of us shot several magazines like that and the effect is that the difference in felt recoil and gun movement BETWEEN the rounds is barely noticeable (and I would argue not noticeable at all to a new shooter). The biggest (and still discernable) difference between them was muzzle blast.

I said all that to say that some people (like me) are running pretty heavy buffers...but I've only seen it with people using coated BCGs (IONbond, Chrome, FZ/NiB, QPQ/polished stainless, etc.).

Lastly, when going back and forth between an H3 and my 7.3oz buffer, the difference in recoil and gun movement is noted.

It seems the great reduction in friction caused by the FZ coating on my Spike's BCG is causing a meaningful INCREASE in rearward BCG velocities.

I run my BCG wet with Slip2k EWL despite the coating, so I cannot comment on running one of these BCG's dry. I wouldn't recommend that anyhow.

[Brahmzy]

BufordTJustice, great post - your methods/findings have been very similar to mine. After much experimentation, I run Spikes NiB BCGs, Tubbs Flatwire springs and H3's in every single 556 AR I own. The result is extremely smooth, extremely soft shooting rifles. Like jaw-droppingly soft shooting. Every one's also got a Battlecomp on it. The combination is awesome, and dead reliable. The reduced friction of the NiB BCGs really lets you do some cool stuff.
I have a Slash heavy 308 buffer that has worked great, and I think I'm going to try one or two of his 556 heavy buffers.
Now if could just convince FailZero to coat my 308 BCG for me!

[Neo Mara]

I started with Slash at Heavybuffers.net. He crafted a SS buffer body with a continuous diameter equal to the 'spring shoulder' diameter of a normal carbine buffer body (the shoulder located immediately behind the head of the buffer body).

So I take it the buffer has a shoulder near the end of the buffer and the spring stays under significant preload? Got any pics? I didn't see anything like that on his site.

[BufordTJustice]

So I take it the buffer has a shoulder near the end of the buffer and the spring stays under significant preload? Got any pics? I didn't see anything like that on his site.

Negative.

See the picture on Slash's website:
http://www.heavybuffers.com/ar15carbine.html

The rearward diameter of my buffer body is equal to the shoulder diameter (the portion of the buffer body that essentially grabs or captures the front end of the buffer spring) of a normal buffer body. A normal carbine buffer has a step-down after this shoulder.

See Bravo Company's Photo of a normal buffer here:
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Carbi...%20carbine.htm

[Neo Mara]

I saw the pictures on the site but your post led me to think you had had a custom buffer made unlike the ones listed on his site.