Going into class "cold"

[Jay Cunningham]

I can't understand why anyone would intentionally disrupt what they do for an unquantifiable "plus".

I fail to see a benefit stopping shooting a week or two before a class if you would likely be shooting. Nor do I see a benefit "cramming" two days before a class shooting 500/rounds per session if you usually don't do that either.

Whatever happened to "don't break your normal routine"?

[orionz06]

I don't believe shooting prior to class would be terribly detrimental (or even at all), but I assume we are discussing people who shoot regularly anyhow who are taking classes to learn things they don't already know.

Pretty much. Let's use M4CUser, the ideal member here. He has a few basic classes in both carbine under his belt, shoots a few times a month and carries daily in a free state.

He can wake up in the AM and perform the test Grant mentioned above without issue. He may shoot better once he has a few rounds down range, but he has a solid skillset from his classes and practice.

If he skips shooting for a little bit before a class he is likely not "cold". He may not be warmed up, but the instructors do that as they evaluate skill levels anyway.

I don't think the physical act of not shooting before class does ANYTHING specifically beneficial in itself. But it is a path to the mental preparation I mentioned. Basically it is a mental trick that works for some.

How does one really need to mentally prepare for a class?

Any form of learning requires only a few things from the student. If shooting distracts from that, is shooting before the class the real barrier to learning?

Other than that, the only other real benefit is the instructor gets a truer sense of your actual ability on any given day and can observe and correct issues that may go unnoticed if you drilled heavily before the class.

If there are issues that are present "cold" and go away, are they really issues or just a sign that you might not be "there" yet?

Shawn had mentioned that there was something that TS corrected early on, I am still curious as to what that is, perhaps it will help me understand this.

And just so we are on the same page, I don't think "not practicing" is going to give you dramatic benefits. The reality is people are different and best absorb teachings in different ways. For some people walking in as a blank page to be filled with information works best for them. For others walking in well practiced and having your skilled polished and refined works best for them.

I get that, but how does not performing a physical act make one a better student and more capable of learning? I understand learning in different ways, but of the modes of learning I am aware of, none improve with a break prior.

The only real issue is understanding which person you are, what works for you best, and knowing where you need to be for your skill level to progress.

Perhaps I need to level up my zen and re-read the thread.

[rickp]

Are you kidding me???? Let me guess, you're the kind of guy that wont eat for 3 days before going to a all you can eat buffet, am I right????

Do you really believe that not training the week before your class will maximize your training experience???? I got some beach side property in Arizona I want to sell you too. It's real cheap!!!

Ok I'm done giving you a hard time. I do cause I care!!

Training is something that takes you out of your comfort zone. How would not training for the week leading to it change that.

Stop complicating the whole event. Keep training the way you normally do and when your training comes around push yourself as much as possible, become a sponge and absorb it all and and take it to the limit.
By not shooting all you're doing is hurting yourself.

[SteyrAUG]

I can't understand why anyone would intentionally disrupt what they do for an unquantifiable "plus".

I fail to see a benefit stopping shooting a week or two before a class if you would likely be shooting. Nor do I see a benefit "cramming" two days before a class shooting 500/rounds per session if you usually don't do that either.

Whatever happened to "don't break your normal routine"?

Let me attempt to explain it again better.

What we are talking about is people "cramming" before the class, and here I'm making an assumption that it is for the benefit of being "better than they normally are."

Operating on the assumption that the guy we are talking about taking the class probably shoots at least twice a month we aren't really talking about changing that routine. What I (and I think others) are talking about is the guy who shoots twice a month adding to that routine in order to get some "before class" cramming in.

And for all the reasons I've offered, I personally find that a bit counter productive. Now just so we are understanding each other, I don't think it will offer benefits any more dramatic than the guy who crams for the test. It is just another way to approach professional instruction that may be more beneficial to some than others.

We probably shouldn't spend too much time or assign too much importance to either consideration as neither is the secret of ninja shooting skills.

[SteyrAUG]

How does one really need to mentally prepare for a class?

Any form of learning requires only a few things from the student. If shooting distracts from that, is shooting before the class the real barrier to learning?

Depends on the individual. And again, it isn't the "shooting" that is the problem. It is nothing more than an approach to learning where you go in with nothing more than you have on any given week.

If there are issues that are present "cold" and go away, are they really issues or just a sign that you might not be "there" yet?

Shawn had mentioned that there was something that TS corrected early on, I am still curious as to what that is, perhaps it will help me understand this.

Let me try this. How you will perform without any significant preparation for class is a good indicator of how you may perform if ever you are forced into a situation that requires you to use a weapon.

I am of the opinion that I'd rather have an instructor seem me at my "average" skill level on possibly improve things that might have gone unnoticed if I was more brushed up.

I get that, but how does not performing a physical act make one a better student and more capable of learning? I understand learning in different ways, but of the modes of learning I am aware of, none improve with a break prior.

And I think this is where some of us may be assigning too much emphasis to this idea. If your normal training schedule is to shoot twice a week then shoot twice a week. What I am talking about is not doing the extra cramming before the test.

It's a lot like the guy in college who really has studied all along during class and takes a break from studying the night before the test so he can be relaxed and focused. Obviously that is not everyone.

Perhaps I need to level up my zen and re-read the thread.

Actually it will probably become much simpler and more easily grasped if you realize that it is nothing more than a mental approach to training that works for some and not terribly significant.

It is not out of the secret manual which allows you to reach Level 10.

[SteyrAUG]

Are you kidding me???? Let me guess, you're the kind of guy that wont eat for 3 days before going to a all you can eat buffet, am I right????

Do you really believe that not training the week before your class will maximize your training experience???? I got some beach side property in Arizona I want to sell you too. It's real cheap!!!

Ok I'm done giving you a hard time. I do cause I care!!

Training is something that takes you out of your comfort zone. How would not training for the week leading to it change that.

Stop complicating the whole event. Keep training the way you normally do and when your training comes around push yourself as much as possible, become a sponge and absorb it all and and take it to the limit.
By not shooting all you're doing is hurting yourself.

If you are talking to me, I think you missed this part.

"And just so we are on the same page, I don't think "not practicing" is going to give you dramatic benefits. The reality is people are different and best absorb teachings in different ways. For some people walking in as a blank page to be filled with information works best for them. For others walking in well practiced and having your skills polished and refined works best for them."

[rickp]

No I was talking to the OP.

R.

[SteyrAUG]

No I was talking to the OP.

R.

Gotcha, just trying to keep on the same page with folks.

[YVK]

For some people walking in as a blank page to be filled with information works best for them. For others walking in well practiced and having your skilled polished and refined works best for them.

The only real issue is understanding which person you are, what works for you best, and knowing where you need to be for your skill level to progress.

This is a nice summary. One thing I have hard time is this: would abstaining from shooting/training for a week or two really make me a blank page? I mean, after a dozen of classes, thoughtful selection of techniques and procedures that make sense and work for me, on and off range practice, would I really be able to forget all those things I've worked hard to learn?
Another question why should I forget them. I am, just like anybody else, pay money to go and learn something new, but that new has to compared to what I already know to make an intelligent choice, no?

[orionz06]

Depends on the individual. And again, it isn't the "shooting" that is the problem. It is nothing more than an approach to learning where you go in with nothing more than you have on any given week.

You are not separating the physical from mental. Not shooting for a period of time will have you starting "sloppy", "rough", or whatever. That is where some correction could be had. If the act of shooting before the class impacts your comprehension and ability to listen you have all kinds of shit wrong.

Let me try this. How you will perform without any significant preparation for class is a good indicator of how you may perform if ever you are forced into a situation that requires you to use a weapon.

I am of the opinion that I'd rather have an instructor seem me at my "average" skill level on possibly improve things that might have gone unnoticed if I was more brushed up.

Correct. This is why we have various drills that we try as soon as the feet touch dirt at the range. Run a FAST Test, "The Test", The Hack, or The 700, or whatever you created. Shooting it off of the street shows what you can do. Shooting it at the end of a range session shows how good you are after 200 rounds. Bad things happen at the worst times, you know, like when you haven't warmed up with 200 rounds.

And I think this is where some of us may be assigning too much emphasis to this idea. If your normal training schedule is to shoot twice a week then shoot twice a week. What I am talking about is not doing the extra cramming before the test.

And everyone in this thread agrees. Don't show up trying to have the best split times in a class where students are learning which end the bullets come from. Shooting a drill the instructor likes before the class to be super duper good at it is being dishonest with yourself. We know this.

It's a lot like the guy in college who really has studied all along during class and takes a break from studying the night before the test so he can be relaxed and focused. Obviously that is not everyone.

You are talking about taking a test, I am referring to the learning aspect. Physical performance (shooting) and learning (mental) are two different things that work together. Does not shooting allow you to digest more info?

Actually it will probably become much simpler and more easily grasped if you realize that it is nothing more than a mental approach to training that works for some and not terribly significant.

How is not shooting, negating a physical activity, better preparing you or a mental activity?

It is not out of the secret manual which allows you to reach Level 10.

My levels go to 11.

This is a nice summary. One thing I have hard time is this: would abstaining from shooting/training for a week or two really make me a blank page? I mean, after a dozen of classes, thoughtful selection of techniques and procedures that make sense and work for me, on and off range practice, would I really be able to forget all those things I've worked hard to learn?
Another question why should I forget them. I am, just like anybody else, pay money to go and learn something new, but that new has to compared to what I already know to make an intelligent choice, no?

That is where I struggle. Understanding how people learn I know that some learn in different ways than others. 6 years of college, 2 degrees, 7 years of a trained skilled job, all my years of guitar lessons, etc, I have seen tons of different teaching methods and ways that people learn. Never once have I seen anyone stop a physical activity to better themselves for a mental activity, assuming the physical activity did not have them sleeping or something like that.

These are perishable skills. Everyone gets the idea that your best gauge of performance is what you can do at 3AM with no pants on and someone shooting back. The best we have, safely, is measuring with a standard drill in which we can compare ourselves to past scores and others. I have never had a teacher, for anything, tell me that I would learn more if I stopped for a period of time. It will magnify your worst, which we want. But it won't make you better, mentally.