Larue, Noveske, and their Stainless Barrels...

[a0cake]

Preface:

I put this in the technical forum, because in more ways than not this post is about comparing two different types of barrel steel. LW-50 and 416R.

Orange button search results have left me wanting more. I didn't get the impression that there was an informed discussion going on in the threads I found.
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I'm looking for an accurate 18'' upper for my next purchase. I hate the way some people use terms like SPR, but I suppose that's what some of you would call what I want. Although, I don't want a MK12 clone so that's why I don't like the term SPR. But Anyway...

I think I've narrowed down my search to the Larue Stealth and Noveske offerings. Major differences include:

1) Wylde (Larue) vs 5.56 chamber (Noveske)

2) 1/8 (Larue) vs 1/7 (Noveske)

3) The third, and probably most important difference, is in the type of stainless used. As you know, the barrel is where the rubber meets the road, and arguably the most important part of the equation when it comes to accuracy. Larue uses LW-50 Stainless for their Stealth Upppers while Noveske uses what I imagine to be a close equivalent of 416R. Noveske experts, is that correct?

There's a lot of BS, conjecture, fanboys, and uninformed opinions floating around when it comes to comparing these. Help me figure out the facts.

My request for information focuses on barrel longevity and inherent accuracy potential, comparing the Larue Stealth and Noveske SS barrels found in their uppers. Thanks much for any information you guys can provide.

[seb5]

I've owned and shot both. I can't comment on the type of steel used as I would be clueless in that discussion. I will say that I tend to believe that the Larue had an edge, but that is a sample of 1 Larue and 2 Noveskes. Possibly the Wylde has an effect over the 5.56 chamber? Anyway if you want the utmost in pure accuracy I would go with another I've owned a few of, Krieger. Then either build it yourself or have any competent smith or armorer assemble it for you and you will have a rifle that gives up little if anything to the bolt guns.

[ccosby]

Either choice should be very accurate and last you a while.

I seem to remember on tos Larue saying one of their uppers got sent back that started to keyhole. It had hit like 40 or 50k rounds.

Steve over at ACDO Firearms took a Wilson 16 inch stainless barrel and cut it to 11.5 and moved the gas port up a bit because he was going to shoot it suppressed. He posted pictures at 15k rounds that he shot through it over 18 months. He said there was a good amount of wear on the rifling but the throat erosion wasn't bad. He did a bunch of full auto fire on it as well. He has a basic write up on tos.

Chances are unless you are really just pushing for absolute accuracy either choice will last you a very long time before loosing enough accuracy to make a difference.

[Belmont31R]

Owned both (2 ea). No real difference to me but if you're buying a complete upper they are setup a little differently. You can buy Noveske barrels but not LT.


I've had over 20k rounds through all 4 barrels and if I had to pick one it would be LT. They are about 10 minutes from me and I've never had a single issue with the Stealth uppers. Maintain accuracy well and I like the rails.

[a0cake]

Also, am I foolishly overlooking BCM here? Who makes their SS 410 barrels? How does that material compare to LW-50 and 416? I've read various things, some conflicting. Any expert advice from someone intimately familiar with Stainless Steel would be great.

[JSGlock34]

I think I've narrowed down my search to the Larue Stealth and Noveske offerings. Major differences include:

1) Wylde (Larue) vs 5.56 chamber (Noveske)

2) 1/8 (Larue) vs 1/7 (Noveske)

3) The third, and probably most important difference, is in the type of stainless used. As you know, the barrel is where the rubber meets the road, and arguably the most important part of the equation when it comes to accuracy. Larue uses LW-50 Stainless for their Stealth Upppers while Noveske uses what I imagine to be a close equivalent of 416R. Noveske experts, is that correct?
.

Before you get too far down the road, I'm not sure your first two bullets are quite correct...

1) The Noveske stainless barrels do not use a standard 5.56 chamber. They use a Noveske specified chambering - 'Noveske Match Mod 0' which has tighter tolerances than the standard 5.56mm chambering.

2) I can't seem to find the reference (this very similar thread touches on it), but my understanding is that the twist is also specific to Noveske as well and is closer to a 1 in 7.7. Perhaps Todd K. can comment.

As for the barrel steel, this DefenseReview interview with John Noveske has a lot of information on the material used. In the interview, Noveske states "I use a different material which is technically considered 416R, and it’s a lot harder than any stainless we’ve ever tested from other manufacturers. Our stainless comes in around 32 on the Rockwell C scale, and that’s harder even than the call-out for the M16 barrel."

Having owned a Noveske Recon, I can say it was extremely accurate. My friend's LaRue Stealth was extremely accurate as well. You couldn't go wrong with either choice.

[a0cake]

Before you get too far down the road, I'm not sure your first two bullets are quite correct...

1) The Noveske stainless barrels do not use a standard 5.56 chamber. They use a Noveske specified chambering - 'Noveske Match Mod 0' which has tighter tolerances than the standard 5.56mm chambering.

2) I can't seem to find the reference (this very similar thread touches on it), but my understanding is that the twist is also specific to Noveske as well and is closer to a 1 in 7.7. Perhaps Todd K. can comment.

As for the barrel steel, this DefenseReview interview with John Noveske has a lot of information on the material used. In the interview, Noveske states "I use a different material which is technically considered 416R, and it’s a lot harder than any stainless we’ve ever tested from other manufacturers. Our stainless comes in around 32 on the Rockwell C scale, and that’s harder even than the call-out for the M16 barrel."

Having owned a Noveske Recon, I can say it was extremely accurate. My friend's LaRue Stealth was extremely accurate as well. You couldn't go wrong with either choice.

You're right about about Noveske's chambers...designed to shoot MK 262 in the heat on F/A reliably, from what I remember. Not sure why I overlooked that when writing the original post. Thanks for the correction.

Anyhow, I'm not all that concerned about this as both the Wylde and Noveske proprietary chambers have proven themselves accurate and reliable from all I can gather.

As far as the barrel twist goes, I was just going off of their site, but Kreiger uses 1 / 7.7 for their match barrels, so I would not be suprised if Noveske was doing so also, as many say it's the best specific rate.

Your experience with both platforms seems to mirror most people's. The more research I do, the more I'm lead to believe that this decision should just be made by saying eeny, meeny, miny, moe. Thanks for the reply.

[Buck]

I suggest that you also look at White Oak...

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com

They make fantastic stainless steel barrels...

S/F

B

[bp7178]

As others have stated, the Noveske chamber is different from a standard 5.56mm.

I used to have a link to a very informative reloading site that listed the measured leade/throat of different chambers. The standard 5.56 had the longest, followed by the Wylde, Noveske and the Kreiger .223match was the shortest.

The barrel material of the Noveske is 416R, which is a proprietary product of Crucible steel, and is different from standard 416 series stainless. It was designed for rifle barrels, and has a different sulphur content. You can google a datasheet from them (Crucible) if you want to know more.

All that being said, the specifics of which high quality barrel is better is a moot point. What the barrel maker does with the material and the care they go to will determine the quality of the barrel more than the fine stuff.

I will say if you are shopping for a precision upper, spring for a Vltor upper if you are going with the Noveske. I can't say enough good things about them. There are a few threads where I hash out my thoughts on them.

I like Larue stuff as well, and I've heard nothing but good things about WOA.

One caution is to be careful when shopping for precision barrels. Some say the Noveske is too expensive, but when you start adding bead blasting, pinned gas blocks with gas tubes, thread for FH etc, they all get expensive.

My current gun is running a Noveske 1/8 3-land and groove 16" with a 11.5" gas system.

The only reason I bought this over a Larue is that I could get the longer gas system I wanted.

[Sgt_Gold]

Preface:
My request for information focuses on barrel longevity and inherent accuracy potential, comparing the Larue Stealth and Noveske SS barrels found in their uppers. Thanks much for any information you guys can provide.

Given that an M4 with an ACOG and MK262 is ahead shot machine out to 500 meters, how much extra accuracy are you looking for, and at what range are you going to be applying it? I doubt that outside of actual empirical accuracy testing you're unlikely to find that one barrel really out classes the other. The Wylde chamber is used by many many competition shooters because it allows you to use a wide variety of ammo, functions when dirty, and doesn't give up any accuracy to the SAAMI .223 chamber.