AAR: Hackathorn/Vickers Low Light Intensive Course II

**Jay Cunningham** · 11-14-07, 20:14

Originally Posted by Sam

I hear that Remington UMC 115gr. 9mm is notoriously weak (even for a 9), a friend said he chronoed some and they were slower than Winchester white box and CCI Blazer.
Remington UMC won't run in my 1911, but will run in my Glock, M&P and Berettas.

I figured as much. I have run nearly 1,000 rounds of Speer Gold Dot 124 gr. +P (you know that ain't weak) to make sure my gun liked my choice of carry ammo - no issues with that, obviously.

I also suspect lower pressures with the 55 gr. AE I was shooting in my 12.5" barrel AK - I think mil-spec ammo will eliminate any minor cycling issues.

**FJB** · 11-14-07, 20:33

Originally Posted by KCS

Hey guys I'm in a armorer class this week with a couple of guys from a nieghboring agency who have glock model 22's that have been having malfunction's w/the surefire x220's attached. All 8 of their swat guys have the lights on their guns and all guns function w/o the light and all malfunction w/the light - Glock told the to change to the new mag springs, but they already had them, changed them any way - still malf. They sent them to the factory and they said it only happened once at the factory and sent the guns back to them. So they ditched the lights. Any of you have a problem w/glock and a weapon mounted light?

When I went through the Glock Armorer/Instructor Workshop Course a year ago, our instructor Dennis Tueller of Tueller Drill fame, stated that the reason that Glock came out with their own light was that the polymer Glock frames weren't flexing properly with the aluminum housing mounted lights like the X200 and TLR. Not sure if the M3 lights with their polymer housing causes this same problem.

S/F

**Jay Cunningham** · 11-14-07, 20:37

Interesting info - thanks for the heads-up Freddie.

**John_Wayne777** · 11-14-07, 22:00

Originally Posted by Thekatar

Since we're on the topic, I had a couple of malfunctions with my Glock 19. I have never run Remington UMC 115 gr. through it before this class, and I've never had a malf (about 3500 rounds total) until now.

Just think, I got my AK and my Glock to both malfunction this class - oh noes!!111!

I was running Remington UMC 115 grain in my 9mms during the course. It's definitely weaker than other stuff. I had a failure to go into battery with my M&P and even a dud round in my 92fs. Recoil was noticeably mild.

It's dirty as hell too.

**Joe R.** · 11-14-07, 22:57

KCS. this is a known issue with the .40 caliber Glocks especially. Take the lights off and they will run fairly well, with the added weight of the light and the reduction in frame flex they tend to choke and puke on a regular basis.

**KevinB** · 11-14-07, 23:15

Two 1200 man dept's that I know in Canada had issues with the lights on the G22's. Glock initialy did a Hk and simply said they needed new guns - then new mags... One dept's Tac team then went to Sig P226R's (in .40) and was urging the rest of the dept to dump Glock -- Glock turned around and replaced all the dept's guns for free.
From two Glock armorers on those dept's the issue is less with frame flex -- but the springs and followers when used with certain ammo. Glock however seem to have inherited the teutonic arogance and refuses to admit their are potentail problems with this aspect -- which IMHO is endangering officer safety.
(end of Kev's rant on that issue)

I've never had a hickup with my G19 and X200 combo -- but this course had BigRed and several others with G19 and lights having more issues than I have ever seen with Glocks before in my life -- and the roudn count on this course was not large...

**FJB** · 11-16-07, 07:59

FYI. Today is International Disadvantaged People' Day. Please send an encouraging message to a retarded friend or in this case friends... Just as I've done. I don't care if you lick windows, take the short bus, screw farm animals, or occasionally shit on yourself...You hang in there. You're special!

S/F

**C4IGrant** · 11-16-07, 08:04

Originally Posted by FJB

FYI. Today is International Disadvantaged People' Day. Please send an encouraging message to a retarded friend or in this case friends... Just as I've done. I don't care if you lick windows, take the short bus, screw farm animals, or occasionally shit on yourself...You hang in there. You're special!

S/F

So which one of the Canadians did you send an e-mail too??

C4