Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 77

Thread: Bufferless?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    S.E. Texas
    Posts
    85
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)

    Bufferless?

    I have been doing some reading and please let me know if I am understanding this. If I were to use a piston kit on an AR, with some work I could ditch the whole buffer, tube, and buffer spring assembly and use a side folding stock like a PDW? Similar to the piston/spring system on an AK or SKS.
    "...as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Joshua 24:15

    "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Founding Father Thomas Paine




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Somewhere...
    Posts
    1,251
    Feedback Score
    21 (100%)
    No.

    Unless you redesign the bolt, and a buffer system, there ain't no way that you are putting a folding stock on an AR type weapon.


    I really am not sure where you have been researching, but there is no way that what you describe is even remotely possible.

    If you want a folding stock (still don't know why anyone would go out of their way to have a folding stock...) get a rifle that was designed with a folding stock in mind.

    Attempting to retro-fit a folding stock on a weapon that was intended to have a buffer tube attached to the rear of the receiver will end in disaster...
    Last edited by DeltaSierra; 10-06-11 at 21:19.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    S.E. Texas
    Posts
    85
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaSierra View Post
    No.

    Unless you redesign the bolt, and a buffer system, there ain't no way that you are putting a folding stock on an AR type weapon.


    I really am not sure where you have been researching, but there is no way that what you describe is even remotely possible.

    If you want a folding stock (still don't know why anyone would go out of their way to have a folding stock...) get a rifle that was designed with a folding stock in mind.

    Attempting to retro-fit a folding stock on a weapon that was intended to have a buffer tube attached to the rear of the receiver will end in disaster...
    Actually I found what I remembered from a long time ago. Olympic Arms had the OA93 and another off shoot of that the name eludes me right now. Thanks to the Clinton AWB, the whole project pretty much got scrapped.

    Now to see if I can find one of those old uppers and not spend a truck full of $$$.
    "...as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Joshua 24:15

    "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Founding Father Thomas Paine




  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Always in the mountains.
    Posts
    310
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightgunner View Post
    Actually I found what I remembered from a long time ago. Olympic Arms had the OA93 and another off shoot of that the name eludes me right now. Thanks to the Clinton AWB, the whole project pretty much got scrapped.

    Now to see if I can find one of those old uppers and not spend a truck full of $$$.
    Why would you spend any money for an Olympic Arms rifle? Good advice has already been given. If you want a gun with a folding stock, buy a gun where the design allows for a folding stock (AK, SCAR, etc).

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    50
    Feedback Score
    0
    There are a lot of options for a colapsable stock in 556 now. PARA and RRA have some.

    HK has a new PDW with a new stock that looks bufferless. I think they have been able to balance a short BCG and just a spring in a tiny buffer tube.









    There is also another smaller company doing the same thing but I will have to do some searching.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    AZ-Waging jihad against crappy AR's.
    Posts
    19,905
    Feedback Score
    80 (100%)
    As far as I know nothing you have cited is actually available for purchase and none of them are proven. By proven I don't mean someone went to the range one time and it worked for 300 rounds.

    I mean proven as in the system has had thousands and thousands of rounds trhough it over time and all the kinks worked out.

    As others have mentioned, if you want a folding system get something designed to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Knuckle View Post
    There are a lot of options for a colapsable stock in 556 now. PARA and RRA have some.

    HK has a new PDW with a new stock that looks bufferless. I think they have been able to balance a short BCG and just a spring in a tiny buffer tube.









    There is also another smaller company doing the same thing but I will have to do some searching.





    "A firearm should be considered a fighting weapon first. Any other use should be considered a bonus." -Me

    Click here for Semper Paratus Arms AR15 armorer schedule/locations.

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Multiple armorer certifications

    I am affiliated and work with SIONICS Weapon Systems in Tucson, AZ

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    431
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    As appealing as an AR with a folding stock may seem, the chances of getting your hands on one that is actually going to be reliable is probably pretty slim, not to mention you will probably lose parts commonality/modularity. Like others have said, look towards some guns that were designed ground-up for a folding stock, not retro-fitted.

    The SCAR comes to mind.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Central OK
    Posts
    369
    Feedback Score
    0
    Isn't the KAC PDW a bufferless design as well?
    Sent from the future using Squid Telepathy

    Quote Originally Posted by MistWolf View Post
    If we could control all the variables, we'd just put all the bad luck on our enemies and stay home.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    50
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    As far as I know nothing you have cited is actually available for purchase and none of them are proven. By proven I don't mean someone went to the range one time and it worked for 300 rounds.

    I mean proven as in the system has had thousands and thousands of rounds trhough it over time and all the kinks worked out.

    As others have mentioned, if you want a folding system get something designed to use it.
    Ok, I guess I should have spent more time in wording what I stated.

    I certainly don't claim to know it all. I just want to pass on what I have seen and read

    IF I was buying a rifle to depend my life on, yes, it would be one with a LONG proven track record.

    But, for a recreational shooter there are AR15 options from reputable manufactures.

    As far as buying a HK 416 PDW, I can't say at the moment. I would imagine that you can, or in the near future, you could buy a HK. Since its HK you would need to be LE/Mil.

    For info sake I will post the website/company with a system like HK. You would, however, need to be able to own a SBR.



    For the OP I think this could be a great option. This one is made by RRA, a reputable company.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    AZ-Waging jihad against crappy AR's.
    Posts
    19,905
    Feedback Score
    80 (100%)
    Yes, and you still can't buy one. That's the whole point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dionysusigma View Post
    Isn't the KAC PDW a bufferless design as well?





    "A firearm should be considered a fighting weapon first. Any other use should be considered a bonus." -Me

    Click here for Semper Paratus Arms AR15 armorer schedule/locations.

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Multiple armorer certifications

    I am affiliated and work with SIONICS Weapon Systems in Tucson, AZ

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    AZ-Waging jihad against crappy AR's.
    Posts
    19,905
    Feedback Score
    80 (100%)
    416's are not available. The closest available in the U.S is the MR556 and I doubt we will be seeing any 416 PDW's.

    RRA is not something most people here would consider reputable.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Knuckle View Post
    Ok, I guess I should have spent more time in wording what I stated.

    I certainly don't claim to know it all. I just want to pass on what I have seen and read

    IF I was buying a rifle to depend my life on, yes, it would be one with a LONG proven track record.

    But, for a recreational shooter there are AR15 options from reputable manufactures.

    As far as buying a HK 416 PDW, I can't say at the moment. I would imagine that you can, or in the near future, you could buy a HK. Since its HK you would need to be LE/Mil.

    For info sake I will post the website/company with a system like HK. You would, however, need to be able to own a SBR.



    For the OP I think this could be a great option. This one is made by RRA, a reputable company.





    "A firearm should be considered a fighting weapon first. Any other use should be considered a bonus." -Me

    Click here for Semper Paratus Arms AR15 armorer schedule/locations.

    M4C Misc. Training and Course Announcements- http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=141

    Multiple armorer certifications

    I am affiliated and work with SIONICS Weapon Systems in Tucson, AZ

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    KS
    Posts
    1,878
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    A folding stock is nifty, but is it really that beneficial? Or is it just cool and people want it for that reason?

    Seems like it would only be useful for vehicle ops.

    As far as ARs are concerned, there are no systems out there from any reputable manufacturers. Magpul designed an ACR upper receiver that interfaced with a standard AR lower and would allow for a folding stock, but never did anything with it. HK considered something similar during the development of the 416, but decided that it would only have marginal benefits.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    84
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    http://www.zmweapons.com/



    [IMG]http://www.outdoorsunlimited.net/~chucksmy/guns/zm300-9.JPG[/IMG

    Last edited by tony413; 10-07-11 at 08:03.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    KS
    Posts
    1,878
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by tony413 View Post
    http://www.zmweapons.com/



    [IMG]http://www.outdoorsunlimited.net/~chucksmy/guns/zm300-9.JPG[/IMG

    This is about as ghetto as it gets. A bolt carrier lopped in half with a Sawzall and a recoil system underneath the top rail that fails to function if a single tiny washer is lost. I can't believe that people would sacrifice so much just to get a folding stock.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    84
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    ^^^ do you have personal experience with the product from ZM? if so how extensive?

    i personally have not used it but find it interesting please note i in no way intend to use this to defend my life with.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    2,585
    Feedback Score
    17 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by justin_247 View Post
    This is about as ghetto as it gets. A bolt carrier lopped in half with a Sawzall and a recoil system underneath the top rail that fails to function if a single tiny washer is lost. I can't believe that people would sacrifice so much just to get a folding stock.
    Nor I, sir. With availability and knowledge here of SBR options, can't imagine why someone would need this. Much less want it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tony413 View Post
    ^^^ do you have personal experience with the product from ZM? if so how extensive?

    i personally have not used it but find it interesting please note i in no way intend to use this to defend my life with.
    I don't know if any of the more seasoned on this board would forked've over hard earned money (ETA: holy fook. 2K plus?!), or their time, to gain said personal experience from that thing.

    Educated eyes recognize a backwoods, incest-produced amalgamation when they see one.
    Last edited by munch520; 10-07-11 at 12:24.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Posts
    1,084
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    The only reason one would NEED a folding stock would be if some kind of mission requirement was that the gun fit into a very specific space. I am 100% sure that if this theoretical mission ever occurred, a robust, reliable, and fully tested solution would be what was asked for... not whatever monstrosity that thing is... Or RRA for that matter.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

    The will to win is worthless if you do not have the will to prepare. -Thane Yost

    Whining in a forum that people have seen your thread, but not replied, reeks of an odd brand of desperation. - Me

    Titling your thread "To XYZ or Not to XYZ" will cause me to completely ignore your thread.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    S.E. Texas
    Posts
    85
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Hmmm..wondering whatever happened to wanting to build, create, or have something "Just Because". Folks have been defending themselves from anti gunners for so long they feel everything must be justifiable.

    Pretty sad display.
    "...as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Joshua 24:15

    "Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it." - Founding Father Thomas Paine




  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Somewhere...
    Posts
    1,251
    Feedback Score
    21 (100%)
    The issue here is that NONE of the folding-stock rifles mentioned are worth anything.

    If you don't have a decently reliable rifle, what is the point of having it? Might as well have a pointy stick...

    Nightgunner, you would be well advised to step back, and think about what this site is about. This site is NOT about buying "neat" guns that serve no practical purpose and are unreliable.

    If you want YHM rifles, and weird unreliable weapons, by all means, buy to your hearts content, but don't come here and ask for advice on said weird and unreliable weapons....



    If you want a rifle with a folding stock, look at an Arsenal AK. They are very reliable, proven rifles, and the price is unbeatable.

    I don't think anyone here is saying that you shouldn't get a rifle with a folding stock (although that feature is of dubious value.) If that is what you want, there are quite a few good options out there that would provide you with a very serviceable weapon without sacrificing reliability.
    Last edited by DeltaSierra; 10-07-11 at 20:27.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,504
    Feedback Score
    8 (100%)
    It would only seem a step in evolution to remove the spring & buffer and make a smaller more compact self contained unit that will help the bolt reciprocate more efficiently.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •