Bufferless?

[buckshot1220]

Are we talking about the same gun? The Para TTR? The 2010 Shooting Illustrated Magazine's Golden Bullseye Award for Rifle of the Year. That gun?

Yes, I believe we are. Almost every gun reviewed by a gun mag gets stellar reviews. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a negative review? It also happens to be the same gun that is now discontinued, FYI.

Do you own one? Do you have first hand experience you'd like to share (positive or negative)?

[Kchen986]

The Evolution of the AR seems to be moving in the direction of the SCW--that is, a shortened buffer tube, some method of shortening the reciprocating mass, and adding a shorter collapsible stock. We see the HK doing that on page 1, we've heard of the SCW in a recent M4C post, and I know LWRC is also offering a short receiver extension (aka buffer tube) PSD carbine.

I'd imagine a combination of shortened buffer tubes, flatter springs, and shorter bolt carriers all help this innovation.

FWIW: I like folding stocks. I sometimes keep a long arm in my back seat and the folding stock makes the weapon a lot wieldier inside a vehicle.



I'll stop ranting now.

[justin_247]

I'll tell you one more thing about innovation. It's impossible to know up front which innovations will work and which will fail. I have worked in electronics manufacturing for decades where rapid advance is a way of life. I have personally had too many ideas I thought were sure bets and seen them go sour and seen too many seemingly bad ideas succeed to join the ever present crowd hurling slings and arrows at the innovators.

All you guys hurtling the slings and arrows, Eugene Stoner had to endure the same sort of naysayers. John Moses Browning, Richard Gatling, Georg Luger, Paul Mauser, every one of them had the same insults hurled at their inventions. It's something anyone and everyone who wants to depart from the status quo has to cope.

It's the easiest thing in the world to sit on the sidelines and yell at the quarterback that he's doing it wrong. He's heard it all before.

You need to get off your high horse and cease your baseless ad-hominem attacks against us.

The idea that we're somehow against innovation on the AR platform is ridiculous. There's good innovations and bad innovations, and this definitely falls into the latter category.

Eugene Stoner designed an entire weapons system from the ground up. He didn't go and take an existing weapons system that works fine, use a hacksaw to cut the bolt carrier in half, replace the carrier key with a metal rod, throw in a spring on top of the barrel that's held into place by a washer that's had a piece cut out of it with a pair of diagonal cutters, and then call it a new, revolutionary design.

Finally, you need to quit calling into question whether or not people have tried the weapon or not. That's irrelevant. I don't need to try Stalinism to know that it sucks. I don't need to buy a Yugo to learn that it's extremely maintenance intensive. And I don't need to touch two different kinds of aluminum to know that 7075-T6 has a higher tensile strength than 6061-T6.

At the rate you're going, I'm sure you're going to start going around the forum calling people out by saying, "You've never owned a DPMS! How can you say your Colt is better if you've never tried it!?"

It's too bad all of those years of electronics manufacturing never taught you anything about logic.

[justin_247]

Here's an interesting video that shows how they compressed the recoil system on the Colt SCW:


They completely redesigned the BCG so that the buffer screws onto the backside of a shortened carrier and reduced the buffer's length. Combined with a shortened spring that fits along the outside of the carrier, they were able to significantly reduce the length of the receiver extension.

Admittedly, I'm still not very impressed, but it's a decent compromise that still retains about 50% of the original system, which will certainly cut down on production costs while keeping some parts commonality. The result will probably be much cheaper than FN's and HK's offerings, companies who are still trying to make up for all of the development and tooling money they threw into entirely new weapons systems like the SCAR and 416.

[DeltaSierra]

Here's an interesting video that shows how they compressed the recoil system on the Colt SCW:


They completely redesigned the BCG so that the buffer screws onto the backside of a shortened carrier and reduced the buffer's length. Combined with a shortened spring that fits along the outside of the carrier, they were able to significantly reduce the length of the receiver extension.

Admittedly, I'm still not very impressed, but it's a decent compromise that still retains about 50% of the original system, which will certainly cut down on production costs while keeping some parts commonality. The result will probably be much cheaper than FN's and HK's offerings, companies who are still trying to make up for all of the development and tooling money they threw into entirely new weapons systems like the SCAR and 416.

Thanks for posting that video.

I was curious as to how Colt managed that neat trick...


I am going to be keeping an eye on the SCW to see how it performs out in the field, as I really like the concept behind that new receiver extension.

I have high hopes for the SCW, and since Colt is going to be putting it on the market, I am pretty sure that they have done their homework on this one...

[justin_247]

I am going to be keeping an eye on the SCW to see how it performs out in the field, as I really like the concept behind that new receiver extension.

I have high hopes for the SCW, and since Colt is going to be putting it on the market, I am pretty sure that they have done their homework on this one...

It'll probably work fine. The carbine recoil system is still intact, just streamlined a little more.

When somebody develops an upper receiver group that uses an HK G36 or FN SCAR style bolt carrier and recoil system, that's when things will get very, very interesting for the AR platform.

[TriviaMonster]

If you really want a short weapon for a vehicle or other confined spaces a ps90 sbr sounds like a good bet if you don't mind the price tag, pricey ammo(compared to 5.56), and a weaker round. No folding stock, but a good all around performer for its size. Secret service uses the p90 variant still, I'm sure, mainly for its compact size and relative performance capabilities. Food for thought. But indeed a small rifle in sbr format.

-Chris-

[Magic_Salad0892]

Here's an interesting video that shows how they compressed the recoil system on the Colt SCW:


They completely redesigned the BCG so that the buffer screws onto the backside of a shortened carrier and reduced the buffer's length. Combined with a shortened spring that fits along the outside of the carrier, they were able to significantly reduce the length of the receiver extension.

Admittedly, I'm still not very impressed, but it's a decent compromise that still retains about 50% of the original system, which will certainly cut down on production costs while keeping some parts commonality. The result will probably be much cheaper than FN's and HK's offerings, companies who are still trying to make up for all of the development and tooling money they threw into entirely new weapons systems like the SCAR and 416.

The Colt SCW is awesome. It's on my short list of must have guns, that actually fill a niche for me.

http://www.defensereview.com/colt-su...56-sbr-photos/

This is my favorite article on it, and I'd love to see some of the things on this gun.

Like the ''upgraded'' gas impingement system, with gas regulator. That's awesome.

[Suwannee Tim]

Yes, I believe we are. Almost every gun reviewed by a gun mag gets stellar reviews. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a negative review? It also happens to be the same gun that is now discontinued, FYI.

Do you own one? Do you have first hand experience you'd like to share (positive or negative)?

I do know the gun riters lie, I've bitched about that as much as anyone on this forum. It's a pretty sharp contrast, the piece of garbage you describe versus the "Rifle of the Year" according to Shooting Illustrated.

Never actually seen one. From the propaganda video it seems like a credible rifle. They do a good job of covering up the chop saw marks.

[Suwannee Tim]

You need to get off your high horse and cease your baseless ad-hominem attacks against us.....

I have made no such attack. Please quote said attack if I'm wrong.

.....Finally, you need to quit calling into question whether or not people have tried the weapon or not......

I have not done so. Please correct me, providing a quote if I'm wrong.

.....Eugene Stoner designed an entire weapons system from the ground up.....

My point about Stoner and was that he faced furious criticism.

....It's too bad all of those years of electronics manufacturing never taught you anything about logic.

This is an example of an ad hominem attack.