"MIL-SPEC" accuracy...

[TY44934]

What is impressive about those groups is NOT the ammunition/rifle/carbine's accuracy. Such accuracy is expected.

What impresses the most is that you accomlished that with sight using a large red dot as the point of reference.

What is the MOA of the dot you were using?

[Belmont31R]

Interesting you guys can get such good groups with M855. Molon did tests with several different brands using Colt barrels and got an average 10 shot group size of 3.2" @100 yards with 4 different types of M855 which has basically mirrored what I have gotten with chrome lined barrels including Colt, Noveske, Centurion, & BCM.



I do like IMI ammunition though. Never been able to get it to shoot sub MOA even out of a barrel that would shoot 10 shot sub MOA groups. It did the best for Molon, too. Someone can prove me wrong but I don't think anyone should be expecting sub MOA results consistently if they are even getting those with M855 or M193 even. There is a reason the military adopted Mk262 for precision use.



You can read his M855 accuracy report here: http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=897827&postcount=6

[a0cake]

What is impressive about those groups is NOT the ammunition/rifle/carbine's accuracy. Such accuracy is expected.

What impresses the most is that you accomlished that with sight using a large red dot as the point of reference.

What is the MOA of the dot you were using?

It's a 2 MOA dot. I zero at the top of the dot at 100M. It just makes things easier since the dot is not obscuring the target with this method. It's also easier to get an idea of where you are left to right. At close range the difference is inconsequential and you just put the dot on the target and shoot as you normally would.

As far as the inherent accuracy potential of the equipment, I'm not sure I would agree that 1.5 MOA is "expected" with M855, which is the weakest link in the chain. Back in the day, I wouldn't get too worked up as long as I was seeing 3.5 inches or less at 100 with .mil issue M855. 2-4 MOA is honestly pretty standard. IMI's load is very consistent with a low SD, which helps. Good QC for sure.

[ache_d]

I ran the target out to 100 yards.




But more importantly....... What is your 40 time??

[a0cake]

Someone can prove me wrong but I don't think anyone should be expecting sub MOA results consistently if they are even getting those with M855 or M193 even. There is a reason the military adopted Mk262 for precision use.

Yeah, no way. I've only seen a few sub MOA groups with M855 and they were all flukes. As in...shooter error combined with the inaccuracy of the ammunition came together in such a way that the rounds all got flung into a tiny little cluster...which wouldn't have been so tiny if the trigger had actually broke at the desired point of aim. Random, really.

I would question the veracity of anybody claiming consistent or even common sub MOA performance with M855 or M193.

[Failure2Stop]

We consistently see 1.0-1.5" groups out of them and .50-.85" groups out of the 6940.

Is the barrel of the 6940 different or are you attributing the precision gain to the upper?

What is impressive about those groups is NOT the ammunition/rifle/carbine's accuracy. Such accuracy is expected.

Eh, not really. Within the .mil, there is a terrible tendency to destroy our weapon's precision capability due to improper maintenance/cleaning and failure to maintain expenditure logs on anything other than precision barrels. US LC manufactured M855 is terrible, as pointed out by a0cake, seemingly mostly due to the inconsistency in placement of the steel "penetrator", along with some issues with pressure consistency. Some lots will be great, some lots will be bad, and they will all have a few "substandard" rounds that will blow groups despite the best efforts of the shooter. That deviation can be anywhere from barely perceptable to a couple of minutes of angle. This has been observed, tested, verified, and confirmed.

So I would definately not say that one should anticipate such performance, and if you happen to get it, enjoy it.

What impresses the most is that you accomlished that with sight using a large red dot as the point of reference.

As long as you have a target that you can esily center the dot in, it is pretty easy to get good groups. The size of the dot has nothing to do with the ability to shoot good groups, what does matter is the size of the dot in relation to the target.

Molon did a good demonstration of this.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=34995

[C4IGrant]

Is the barrel of the 6940 different or are you attributing the precision gain to the upper?

No, same barrel as the 6920. It is just free floated.


C4

[Jaysop]

Not to derail from the op but...
Does anyone know where IMI M855 is in stock?
I cant seem to find any threw google.

[markm]

Not to derail from the op but...
Does anyone know where IMI M855 is in stock?
I cant seem to find any threw google.

Not sure if Wideners has any left. They had unpainted M855 for a while. The good old green tip hasn't been around for a while now.

[Iraqgunz]

Not to derail from the op but...
Does anyone know where IMI M855 is in stock?
I cant seem to find any threw google.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.c...dir=18|830|845