Current Need for a Forward Assist?

[MistWolf]

I also do not think an FA is absolutely needed. If somebody were to toss me a rifle lacking an FA, what am I to do? Cry because a press check to verify a loaded chamber might be impractical or even a bad idea?

A certain amount of commonality is a good thing, but for me, I shoot too many different types of firearms to insist on only one way to do certain things. Can't press check or remove the mag to verify the loaded chambers of a double barrel shotgun, for example. I find that I must be able to handle each type of weapon according to it's manual of arms

While I am a hardhead, I do learn when I take time to consider other opinions and experiences of others

[Ghost__1]

Some of you (Mistwolf, Surf, and a few others) argued against doing the magazine drop using logic, so I can respect that. Single stack magazine weapons was a great point MW. I don't use any firearms that have single stack magazines, so it doesn't apply to me. If you do, and want to keep commonality, then a standard press check then F/A might be a good idea for you. For me, I routinely use firearms that you cannot or should not do a standard press check on (M110, M14, etc). So I drop the magazine across the board. Sometimes there is no "right answer." Looking at a colorful world through a black and white lens almost never leads to clear comprehension.


HOWEVER....

Some of these arguments against the magazine drop method are shit.

- "Under stress?" We're talking about admin loads, not tactical reloads. Admin loads are done at the Line Of Departure, not when in contact (unless time / circumstances permit).

- "What if there's 27, 28, or 29 rounds and I don't remember." It doesn't matter. Can you remember the difference between left and right? That's all that matters. There could be 234898 rounds in the magazine, and as long as the top round is now on the other side, you're good to go.

- "What if a round falls out of the mag?" What?

-"What if you don't correctly re-seat the magazine?" Counter - what if you forget to hit the F/A? Equally possible. I don't know any competent person who carries an AR for a living that doesn't give their magazine a good tug to ensure it's fully seated immediately after loading, and then subconsciously at various intervals as a matter of habit. I also don't know anyone who randomly taps their F/A. Think about it.

I don't think some people properly know the steps of the mag check method. I'll review. You have an empty chamber. You look at mag. For the sake of the discussion the round is on the left. You insert mag. Pull and release the ch. Drop mag. The round is on the right if loaded left if not.

I prefer the press check personally but both methods are equally effective imho. I did hate that my 110 didn't have f/a. Pet peeve for me. I still find that I can press check without it. If you pull the bolt back far enough there is still plenty of spring pressure to rechamber without issues.

[a0cake]

I also do not think an FA is absolutely needed. If somebody were to toss me a rifle lacking an FA, what am I to do? Cry because a press check to verify a loaded chamber might be impractical or even a bad idea?

A certain amount of commonality is a good thing, but for me, I shoot too many different types of firearms to insist on only one way to do certain things. Can't press check or remove the mag to verify the loaded chambers of a double barrel shotgun, for example. I find that I must be able to handle each type of weapon according to it's manual of arms

While I am a hardhead, I do learn when I take time to consider other opinions and experiences of others

Agree for the most part MW. But wanting to keep as much commonality as possible does not mean that a person doesn't know the manual of arms for the various weapons. It just means that the person is using muscle memory to their advantage, while working WITHIN the manual of arms of that weapons system. And I think that's an important distinction.

I'm also hardheaded, but for the most part, members here such as yourself are good about presenting alternate viewpoints in a well presented way. So we're all winning.

[SIMBA-LEE]

I think you are asking two different questions.

First, do you need a forward assist? No, not really. The only use for this part is after doing a press check, to make sure the bolt is locked.

Since there are better ways to do a press check, the forward assist is REALLY not needed IMHO....

C4

I agree. In 40 years of using AR-15's I've never once had any need to use a forward assist, whether it was installed on my AR's or not.

I also don't do a press-check. If you are using good mags, and you look to make sure the top round is correctly seated in the mag, and you pull down on the mag after inserting to make sure it is locked in, and the "feel" of the bolt going forward tells you a round was loaded, there shouldn't be any need to press-check. But....if for some reason something doesn't feel right, I'll pull the mag and see if the top round is gone. Which is something I almost never have to do.

However, if I was getting ready to crash a door and expected to take fire, and being paranoid about Mr. Murphy, I'd no doubt take the time to pull the mag and see if the top round had been loaded. But truth is I've never experienced a no-round-loaded situation with AR's, which I think is almost always casused by shooter error. Namely, using defective mags, not seating the mag fully, not pulling down on the mag to make sure it is locked in, or trying to load a mag with the top round sticking part way out of the mag.

[Markasaurus]

Most soldiers will tell you they never needed to use the forward assist for anything. Supposedly some General ordered it added on to the M-16 during the 1960's. It is widely considered completely useless except for the reasons others have mentioned, to quietly load a round when needed and quietly make sure the bolt is seated too. The FA was also suposedly put there, to help seat a round in a dirty chamber when all else failed, as there is no other way to physically push the bolt all the way forward.
But consider one thing - suppose (and it must have happened to somebody) you've got a jam and the bolt WILL NOT go all the way forward on its own. Sure you can always pull the bolt BACK, no problem. But suppose the problem is dirty chamber, split case, you name it - what is the FIRST thing you are going to want to do to fix this thing, when bullets are hissing past you and all Hell is breaking loose around you? You are going to need to pop out the big rear pin break open the upper, and pull the bolt out! IF you CANNOT get the bolt all the way closed into the chamber - or very close to it - then you simply can't break the gun open - because the bolt is part way in the buffer tube! So in this instance the FA might be worth its weight in gold to you at the moment.

Most of us own M4/M16 WITH a forward assist, and probably never or almost never use it. Maybe a useless design feature, maybe not. It's there on the rifle anyway. The answer to whether the FA needs to be there or not is probably moot, because the military would have specified it be removed at some point, in the almost 50 year history of the rifle, if they felt it was worthless.

[markm]

Use it about every time I shoot. And not to "jam a bad round" as the mental midgets love to parrot in perpetuity.

[Heavy Metal]

You are going to need to pop out the big rear pin break open the upper, and pull the bolt out! IF you CANNOT get the bolt all the way closed into the chamber - or very close to it - then you simply can't break the gun open - because the bolt is part way in the buffer tube! So in this instance the FA might be worth its weight in gold to you at the moment.

Sure you can. Pop both pins and slide the upper straight forward.

[mikeahe]

Question, do we need the FA?

On a game gun; NO

On a weapon/HD/SHTF, YES

[GTifosi]

Sure you can. Pop both pins and slide the upper straight forward.

From a select fire viewpoint, an auto sear can get WAY up in the road when trying to break things down like that.
A semi only version, not so much, but still tedious and nothing to try during a firefight.
Presuming of course the hammer hasn't *dropped and the carrier is in a sweet spot that will allow seperation without having to knock the hammer pivot pin out too.

Pick up the nearest whatever and carry on or try to help AG the crew served mabe, but break apart an upper and lower to chase after a faulty round? Nope, not me.

Out in the woods on a hunting expedition?
Sure, why not. After all you're there to hunt and w/o a functioning gun you might as well pack up and go home. Main difference is that on the hunting trip you have those options.

*Most folks will almost every single time pull the trigger before they check the chamber as opposed to checking the chamber then pulling the trigger. The FTFire is usually what causes them to look in the 1st place.

Dunno about the 'modern' last few years usage of the forward assist, but do know that when I played in the sand over there, a lotta folks had to use thier assist because they got trapped into that 'Col. Iwentotcollegeyoudumbass or 1sgt Iknowbetter says no lube because of dust collection' thing. Drier than a popcorn fart can surely cause locking issues just as well as a faulty cartridge can.

[nynco]

I think the FA is a necessary part that only adds weight. Force a round and you get a failure to extract most of the time. I wish there were more uppers without them to choose from. But thats just me.