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Thread: Range Report...a few LMT monolithic railed ARs

  1. #1
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    Range Report...a few LMT monolithic railed ARs

    Hi gents, I just can't refrain from sharing my excitement over the first range report with the new MWS .308..and figured the MRP SPR 5.56 might as well tag along. Since this is about .308 and 5.56 ARs, I hope AR GD was the best place for it.

    Let me start out saying that besides stretching ARs out at long ranges on steel, I really enjoy shooting precision groupings which I believe is one of the best tools for examining a rifle's accuracy and precision. My normal accuracy evaluations consist of shooting multiple(2-4) groups of 10 rounds a piece, no called flyers, no cherry picking. I shoot from the prone position, supported in the rear, and a bipod up front. Distance is 100yds.


    Conditions present
    over the 3 hrs(30min spent referring a cpl. of new AR owners to M4C) I spent during the range session were as follows:

    TEMP: 42-47 degrees F
    Wind: N @ 6-8mph
    Humidity: 43%
    Pressure: 30.36 <---

    Some pics of the setup and rifles used during the session:







    Atlas V8 VS. Harris HBRMS
    ...will revisit this at the end.



    The ARs used:

    LMT MWS....Rock 16" CL .308 1/10....NXSc 2.5-10x24....KAC 2stage Match trigger...ATLAS V8 Bipod

    LMT MRP SPR
    ....Rock 18" 5R SS 5.56 1/7...NXSc 2.5-10x32...GA SD-E.....Harris HBRMS Bipod
    Last edited by TRIDENT82; 12-17-11 at 17:05.

  2. #2
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    RESULTS....Groups:

    MWS:

    The MWS's first ever shots fired and initial sight in...



    MWS Federal GMM 168gr. SMK groups....



    On this one I got to show the original target because it's a straight up bughole...unbelievable



    MWS Hornady 168gr. ZMax(Amax) groups....

    NOTE: The first group is a "Molon 3rd Special...the subsequent 7rds were fired into the next target"



    Barnes 150gr. TTSX group(way to damn expensive for more than 1 group)....




    ________________________________________________________




    MRP SPR:


    Note: This set of three groups not only contains a nice example of precision shooting per each individual group, but ultimately you'll see on the third group after slightly adjusting the POI after each successive group, I finally had a group that was both precise and accurate(precision/accuracy are two different things)

    Hornady 55gr. ZMax(Vmax)....



    FINAL NOTES FROM THE DAY:


    I better be brief in the following....This MWS is absolutely mind blowing in the accuracy dept. I honestly can already sy that this is flat out the most accurate rifle I've ever shot a cpl. mags through. It a straight f**king laser beam. I'm riding a natural high from this rifle that won't end for at least a few days

    308 ARs make a 5.56 AR look absolutely anemic...don't get me wrong, the 5.56 AR is still the king obviously given it's much more widespread use, overall greater portability, lighter weight, and much greater forgiving nature.

    This MWS lets you know for damn sure every single time you pull the trigger....I can shoot my 5.56 ARs all day and not notice a thing, after 60rds through the .308, my shoulder is telling me "enough". To sum it up, the 5.56 ARs of mine simply "kiss" off my shoulder, this MWS straight "thumps" off my shoulder. Oddly, I LOVE IT

    Note...the lightest .308 ammo was the 150gr. and it was easily the worst performer accuracy wise. The correlation here is that the MWS barrels are 1/10, essentially the equivalent to the 1/7 in a 5.56 barrel.

    Oh yeah...FEDERAL, I'm sorry for talking s**t all these years about your over hyped GMM line, sure your GMM .223 69gr. SMK is the biggest paper tiger ever...but damn, already your GMM .308 lineup is simply amazing.

    Lastly, but certainly not least....Thank you Ekbearly(fellow member) who so graciously allowed me to truly see the light today in regards to bipods. I can't express how much the Atlas made a difference for this shooter who loves to shoot precision ARs in the prone position. It's just a damn game changer. Without Ekbearly I might not ever have gotten off the fence given I'm heavily invested in full Harris setups and the Atlas costs $275, however today I realized how stupid I had been for not going ahead and buying once, crying once a year or two ago when I first started lusting after the Atlas. To sum it up, no doubt about it...it's worth every penny and then some(even though I didn't have to buy this one) I will be buying one for sure now as I've seen the dark side and there isn't any coming back from it!
    Last edited by TRIDENT82; 12-17-11 at 14:38.

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    Very nice!! I've been looking at the Rock barrels for my current .308 build and this just add another notch to making my decision. One quick question, is the barrel black from a spray-on finish or is it melonited?? I am for certain sending whatever barrel I get to be melonited and didn't know if Rock barrels had any opinion on it...

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    Thanks brother...Rock Creek most certainly has an opinion on it however I hate to admit but you got me stumped until Monday when I can contact LMT. I know the 16" 5R SST(the actual MoD barrel in the L129A1s) is "blackened". I will most certainly get back to you on this even though LMT is playing the whole Rock barrels very close to the vest at the moment. Ive been scared to death for a year now that LMT is going to go in another direction. They assured me it will be at least as good if not better if they do. That said, it's damn tough to find a better builder than Mike and Rock Creek.

    Here is a quote from Rock Creek....

    "Guys we have had excellent results with the Melonite process.
    The accuracy we have seen on our benchrest barrels is outstanding their is no fouling at all from shot one and throat life is greatly extended. I know that one of the Big name gun company's has over 8000 rounds through a .338 Lapua that Joel Kendrick did for them, and it is still going strong. Joel also has 9000 rounds through his 6X44 600yd benchrest rifle and is still shooting it in competition.

    Now here is my disclaimer, I will not use anybody but Joel Kendrick at MMI-Trutec for doing this, he is the only one in my opinion that knows what he is doing with firearms, we used a couple different company's that do the Melonite process, but do not seem to know what they are doing with barrels, we had some terrible results from those places. Also if you have a Melonited barrel that is fouling it can be relapped and it will take care of the issue. The Melonite process is not thicker than chrome and is a case hardening and you don't have to compensate your machining for the thickness where as you would have to for chroming.


    Paul Tolvstad
    Rock Creek Barrels"

    Here is the thread that contains it and it should serve your interest well....
    http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...1673958&page=2

    Ive owned 7-8 Rock barrels now and I'm effectively ruined
    Last edited by TRIDENT82; 12-17-11 at 17:07.

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    Oh snap, you bastard.....How I long for an LMT 308 MWS! I really hope one will soon be mine. Congrats on a bad ass rifle, happy shooting.
    "You have never lived until you have almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know." - Written by an unknown soldier in Vietnam.

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    Thanks pal, I hope to see you with one of these sooner rather than later

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    Awesome guns as usual, Trident! Are you getting one of the 6.5 caliber guns eventually down the road?

    Someday I 'll save up enough money to get a MRP. Hey if your Harris bipod ever needs a home, I got a rifle that could use it.

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    Your accuracy results pretty much mirror mine. Wait till you can run some handloads through the MWS. Mine loves 175 SMK and 44.7 grains of varget. I was thinking about getting a SS barrel when I first got it but with the accuracy I can consistantly achieve with the CL barrel I just can't justify it. Truly a great rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LRB45 View Post
    Awesome guns as usual, Trident! Are you getting one of the 6.5 caliber guns eventually down the road?

    Someday I 'll save up enough money to get a MRP. Hey if your Harris bipod ever needs a home, I got a rifle that could use it.
    I'm going to get the 6.5cm 20" 5R SS, I've been dreaming of a .260rem barreled precision MWS for well over a yr. or two now but after really weighing it over, I'm completely sold on the 6.5cm over the .260rem. The .260rem might be sexier, however the 6.5cm gives up nothing to it in the LR game and I believe I can acquire 6.5cm factory ammo cheaper and more available than I can for the .260rem. Plus I have always been a fan of Hornady.

    I was gonna wait til I could buy the NF F1 together with this barrel, but now I don't think that's a reality.

    As soon as I can afford to grab the inevitable 2nd Atlas, I will send you a Harris HBRMS setup pal. You can just send me your addy the moment you see me packing another Atlas

    The Harris setups have truly served me extremely well, after several years I have no complaints. The Atlas just ruined me instantly this morning. If somebody doesn't love to drive precision gas guns in the prone position, I'm not sure they will have the proverbial "come to Jesus" moment that I and others Ive read about have had. All I can say is that if you really enjoy shooting prone with a bipod, the Atlas is nothing short of amazing and dare I say a true game changer.

    Quote Originally Posted by KG_mauserman View Post
    Your accuracy results pretty much mirror mine. Wait till you can run some handloads through the MWS. Mine loves 175 SMK and 44.7 grains of varget. I was thinking about getting a SS barrel when I first got it but with the accuracy I can consistantly achieve with the CL barrel I just can't justify it. Truly a great rifle.
    Thanks for reminding me I'm a newb that can't reload You can bet I'll be saving every last piece of this premium .308 brass though. Hopefully I will get off the fence and start to try and make an effort. I just love shooting so much that I believe the reloading aspect will not only cut into my shooting time, but my shooting allowance until I get going and know what I'm doing. I can only imagine this rifle with a worked up load that is tailored for the particular barrel.

    I've shot several .75" and slightly below 10rd groups with my 5.56 precision ARs with TAP T2, BH's 68gr. HPBT and on occasion 55gr. Vmax, but to shoot those two groups with this .308 gas gun that is much harder to "drive" the very first time out leaves me with a smile ear to ear. In my book, I don't believe it can get much better...regardless of barrel material, rifling, worked up hand loads, etc. All day I've been wondering what the hell is the 16" 5R SST capable of I think the MoD contract would have just as easily been won with this barrel. LMT was late to the game and was a huge underdog, so they rushed to submit a rifle they thought would give them the best chance. My guess is at that time, they hadn't fully tested the 16" CL in comparison to the 16" 5R SST.

    Reason I say that especially is that my pal at LMT continually told me to just be happy with the 16" CL 5.56 barrel I was using in my then MRP Recon. I just had to have a real recce in my definition and thus I got the 5R 16" SS 5.56 barrel from him. He has sent me the tested accuracy on both options, and according to LMT's testing....both the 16" 5.56 MRP barrel varieties are sub moa. IIrc the 16" 5R SS was tested at 5/8" @ 100yds....the 16" CL was test at 7/8" @ 100yds.
    Last edited by TRIDENT82; 12-17-11 at 22:51.

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    Well, It looks like by your results I need to spend some money on some decent ammo. My MWS has been ok with Fed 149gr and Hornandy steel match. I need to get some Fed GMM and try that. Nice report. Now its time to stretch the MWSs legs. Please report back when you are out to 800yds or more. Thanks.

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    Will do brother.

    I'm going to be collecting quite a bit more ammo evaluations, chrono-velocity data, then run a cpl. hundred rds. of surplus through it with several different pmags.....and then this dude is doing nothing but LR shooting. I'm going to collect all this data and contain it ultimately in one thread in a month or two, however I just was excited to share the first range report with all my homies on M4C

    In the next few days I'll be doing the ammo evals on:

    1.) Federal GMM 175gr. SMK
    2.) Black Hills 175gr. SMK
    3.) Hornady LE TAP 168gr. BTHP
    4.) Federal 168gr. OTM (M1A)

    I tried for like 20min. to get the 35P working this morning, however I'm still getting the hang of it and I'm probably going to let Oehler look at it and completely retrofit it. Its the cadillac of damn chronos....it deserves to be running in tip top shape. Slomo was the MAN for letting me borrow it, now I need to reward him with some great data
    Last edited by TRIDENT82; 12-18-11 at 01:07.

  12. #12
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    Holie Shiate!

    Taking mine out today with a 100 rounds of Fed 175gr GMM to see how it goes. To bad I don't have a fancy V8 for my testing

    I am amazed at those results from the 16"CL barrel. That is impressive accuracy to say the very least.

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    If I could, I would suggest adding Prvi 168 Match to your testing.

    I'm sure the FGGM will out shoot it, but I've shot a few hundred rounds of it through my 16"CL MWS and was getting good results.

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    Amoung the ammo evals that you have listed, are you going to run any handloads? I know its somewhat taboo with autoloaders, just wondering.
    Last edited by duece71; 12-18-11 at 17:35. Reason: handloads to replace reloads.

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    Good write-up hoss...

    Couple questions:

    1) Why 6.5CM over .260Rem? Strictly availability of factory match ammo? I'm debating the same thing now in anticipation of LMT releasing these barrels in the coming months.

    2) What is so great about the Atlas? Never really heard of them before.

    3) I've heard really good things about the real deal M118LR in these guns - I can never seem to find it to buy though.

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    Good range report.

    If you ever get down Louisiana way let me know, we will do some shooting on my 600m range.

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    JeepDriver....on your recommendation I will reconsider evaluating the PRZI match varieties, however I've heard some really poor reviews on SH. I think the .223 match is solid. In the past the 75gr. ran really slow, but I think that has been fixed now. I got some really nice results when I tested the PRZI .223.

    D90...how did it go, are feeling a strong narcotic effect at the moment

    Ammotogo has already shipped the several boxes of Federal GMM 175gr. SMK I ordered and it would be wild to see it be more accurate if that's possible(100yd eval...not LR) than the 168gr. variety.

    I went today and bought the last 6 boxes of that Federal 168gr. SMK with the same lot number....very disappointed that was all I could get. Those are the type of groups where you just want to quit while your on planet 9.

    I got 2 more different types of ammo as well today to add to the list above...Federal Vital Shok 165gr. BTSP....Remington 150gr. Corelokt.


    Duece71, personally I only buy and shoot commercially avail. factory ammo since I don't reload, but hey...if it's safe to run, I'll test anything.

    Spooky, Thanks pal If you haven't read this particular article than I highly recommend it. It lays out the facts in regards to your question really well, and when your done reading I bet you come to the same conclusion I did. I really do want that sexy .260rem that has been touted now for years in the LR competitions but if you can't roll your own, your immediately behind the eight ball the way I see it...even though SWammo has started to make some .260 ammo avail. for reasonable prices but SWammo isn't Hornady imho.


    6.5 Creedmoor - .260 Done Right?


    Other than deployment speed, the Atlas v8 is just that much better. If you shoot prone, in precision capacities, it's like cheating. I have to refrain from glowing on this issue as I'm just elated on the improvement that this bipod made upon the moment I loaded the bipod for the first shot I took yesterday. The movement and fluidity is outta this world as well.

    I know I posted this pic above but maybe didn't stress why it was posted. This specific picture shows one of the main reasons why this bipod is the game changer that I believe it is.


    Panning the legs forward, than adjusting the legs one or two notches to clear the mag, makes loading the bipod and just overall "driving" the rifle almost effortlessly. As you probably already know....loading a bipod correctly is absolutely crucial and very hard to properly do time in and time out, shot after shot.

    The M118lr is hanging out with TAP T2 last time I heard

    RustedAce, thanks brother....what a blast it would be to shoot alongside your super specimen EMC. You already know the way I view that rifle Luckily I'm not the jealous type

    Same goes for you if your ever in Bama. Not sure if your a LSU fan but If you are, I hope you guys beat the s**t outta them in the National Champ game. Nothing worse being AU alum than hearing Bama fans run their mouths for a whole yr. We should have cloned Cam.
    Last edited by TRIDENT82; 12-18-11 at 20:40.

  18. #18
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    Glad to see you're enjoying that new beauty Trident. A friend of mine who has several precision rifles also swears by Atlas bipods. He says they're expensive, but worth every penny over a Harris.
    Steve


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    Thanks Steve, after you get your very exciting new project to perfection, maybe a .308 AR could be next on your agenda

    I owned only one other .308/7.62 type AR in the past which was a N6, and unloaded it very quickly as I realized that even though it was a super nice rifle, I needed to fully explore the 5.56 ARs as best as I could.

    Were living in the absolute golden age for these rifles, I believe we finally have a handful of .308 ARs that are every bit a reliable as their little brothers, and once that's taken care of....these .308 ARs really bring some impressive things to the table. This starts really a whole new journey and exploration for myself, and that is what I enjoy the most. I'm glad I can share it with all with my friends on M4C, as well as learn from many of them while they are now currently exploring the .308 AR world.
    Last edited by TRIDENT82; 12-19-11 at 00:07.

  20. #20
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    Im really dying for one of these now, I was resisting until I fired one, Now tridents making it hard to forget...

    I think its going to eat my precision bolt budget, Does anyone know if one of these can be built up to be accurate enough for a precision rifle course or something on par with that kind of accuracy?

    I know the British are using it now, What kind of accuracy are they demanding?
    USMC 0331

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