Range Report...a few LMT monolithic railed ARs

[Belmont31R]

ETA: Belmont's last reply about the "headache"...It starts almost immediately upon firing it both times out. Even my teeth hurt. This "headache" is the exact reason I'm on the fence about the BABC or any other comp.

EMC (Cough)

[d90king]

Yes theres nothing to be ashamed of with it. 5.56 is on the bottom end of recoil so a 308 is a big leap. The first time I went out with my MWS I shot a couple hundred rounds and not only did my shoulder bruise badly but I had quite the headache.


Look at the big bore shooters. 20rds through a 416 is no joke. Yes it helps to be used to the recoil of certain rounds but everything certainly takes getting used to. One way to ruin a potential new shooter is to give them a gun way out of their league like these idiots giving women new shooters 300 magnums, 12GA with 3" loads and 500 handgun calibres and then laugh when the gun bites them.

The gas system isn't helping too. If he moves to an 18" it would help a lot with the longer gas system. .308 + carbine gas ='s RECOIL. He will get used to it but it's still going to kick like a pissed off mule.

Like you said, it's a jump from 5.56 to .308 but the short gas system isn't helping his cause. It has its benefits but you pay the price in felt recoil. That's one (or another) area where the OBR and EMC really excel. They are much softer shooting.

Great report Trident! The accuracy you are getting is a hell of a testament to your shooting and the rifle. Keep it up.

[LRB45]

The gas system isn't helping too. If he moves to an 18" it would help a lot with the longer gas system. .308 + carbine gas ='s RECOIL. He will get used to it but it's still going to kick like a pissed off mule.

Like you said, it's a jump from 5.56 to .308 but the short gas system isn't helping his cause. It has its benefits but you pay the price in felt recoil. That's one (or another) area where the OBR and EMC really excel. They are much softer shooting.

Great report Trident! The accuracy you are getting is a hell of a testament to your shooting and the rifle. Keep it up.

If I am reading this right, the 16" barrel on the MWS has a carbine length gas system and the 18" barrel has a longer gas system? If that is true, then a person would be better off getting a longer barrel to help with recoil, correct?

I definitely would love to be able to get a .308 in the future, whether it would be a bolt action or a semi auto.

[JeepDriver]

Suppresor

When I got the 20" barrel with rifle length gas system it was a noticeable difference in shooting comfort. My next modification will either be a heavier buffer or A2 stock & rifle buffer. Unless I call Vltor and they tell me the A5 works with the MWS, that would be the best solution to me.

[rauchman]

Trident82,

Thank you for a great review and discussion about a rifle I'm very interested in, and great shooting!!!

I always look forward to your threads. I never fail to learn something from your threads. You are a definite asset to this site.

Question. I understand the version the Brits use was tuned for the Radway M80 round. I do not know the rifling twist that's used in their setup. Would you know, aside from their barrel being SS vs. CL, is the barrel in your gun setup to the same spec as the Brit rifle, is the twist the same? I'd be curious to see how regular 'ole 7.62x51 M80 FMJ shoots out of your rifle vs the heavier match stuff.

Thanks again!!!

[40Arpent]

EMC (Cough)

Oh no you DIDN'T!!!

Trident, are you wearing double earpro (plugs and muffs)? Also, trying using a mouth guard....you might be clenching your teeth without realizing it.

[ALCOAR]

Trident82,

Thank you for a great review and discussion about a rifle I'm very interested in, and great shooting!!!

I always look forward to your threads. I never fail to learn something from your threads. You are a definite asset to this site.

Question. I understand the version the Brits use was tuned for the Radway M80 round. I do not know the rifling twist that's used in their setup. Would you know, aside from their barrel being SS vs. CL, is the barrel in your gun setup to the same spec as the Brit rifle, is the twist the same? I'd be curious to see how regular 'ole 7.62x51 M80 FMJ shoots out of your rifle vs the heavier match stuff.

Thanks again!!!

I really appreciate the kind words friend

In regards to your question, I will be speaking with my pal at LMT very soon, and will try to get your question answered directly from the folks who would know the best.

I will volunteer my thoughts and attempt to answer it the best I can. I'm not sure if the L129A1's barrel was specifically spec'd for the MoD contract. More than likely that barrel would exist regardless of the MoD contract since LMT makes a comparable 5.56 version(16" 5R SS 1/7 5.56) for the MRP platform since the inception of them back in the Fall of 2004.

The barrel specs in question are:

16" CL .308 1:10 (MWSE model/the one I currently am using)

16" 5R SST .308 1:11.25 (MWSF model/the one the British use)

Both barrels are cryogenically treated to increase accuracy, barrel life and make cleaning easier.

In regards to the special need to run the lighter radway green M80 ball ammo in the contract specifications....it certainly makes since that the Brit's are running a 1:11.25 twist barrel instead of the 1:10 simply because the 1:11.25 should in theory shoot the lighter bullets better than the 1:10 twist barrel.

The 1:11.25 is kinda like a jack of all trades twist rate, whereas the 1:10 is best shooting the heavier stuff. That said, a 1:10 should really shoot everything well.

D90....I'll keep the reports coming brother, looking forward to hearing your thoughts and results once you start to formulate them on your new MWS.

Tomorrow I will be testing several more types of ammo including:

1. Winchester Supreme 168gr. Ballistic Silvertip...very cool looking stuff
2. Hornady Custom 150gr. SST
3. Hornady 168gr. ZMax...re-testing this stuff as my first rounds ever shot on this rifle were those ZMax groups above. I think I can improve.

[ALCOAR]

It's days like today when you really have the opportunity to truly grow as a shooter, and see what a particular rifle is really made of.

This is one amazingly accurate and true hard use rifle imho, I imagine the British and New Zealand troops know this far better than I do.

The very beginning of today's session....



The very end of today's session where I was literally shooting prone in an inch of water.....



Conditions:

TEMP: 46 degrees F
Wind: SSW at 13mph
Humidity: 96%
Pressure: 29.82 <--
Elevation: 417ft.

*** Severe T-storm and heavy showers with a Tornado alert


Results:

Hornady Custom 150gr. SST



Unedited pic:



Winchester Supreme Ballistic 168gr. Silvertip:

10rd. Quarter Dot Drill...(I should have smacked the s**t out of the bubba beside me who was spraying and praying with his tactical 10/22, hints the .22 keyholes in my pic.)





Hornady 168gr. ZMax with a huge surprise:


**note that the bullet not counted in the group was the adj. to POI for another group that never happened due to what you'll see below.

Unedited pic...
[IMG][/IMG]



I always wondered why military ammo really needs primers that are either sealed, crimped, or both. While this might only be a problem in the extremely harsh conditions I was shooting in straight for cpl. hrs. today, I can see why sealed and crimped primers are preferred for fighting rifles that operate in harsh conditions. Sure enough, the primer popped back into the action, and the case ejected as normal....and if I were in a fight, I'd been in a damn tight squeeze. This is the first blown primer I've ever experienced. So I didn't end up doing that second group w/ the ZMax ammo in case you wondered

While those 150gr. SST groups are just outside of being sub MOA groups, I honestly believe that its gonna be more accurate than the Federal GMM 168gr. SMK and I fully expect to have it shoot sub MOA next time out. One shot separates both those groups from being very much sub MOA groups. At any rate, this ammo is a straight laser beam in these MWSs and I will be stocking it deep in my stash in the future.

Lastly, hate to admit it....double earpro solved all my problems as I thought it might, it's just a pain in the ass to keep up w/ both of them and then put on both of them. For this rifle, it makes all the difference in the world for me. Odd how sometimes the most simplest of solutions can be the golden ticket.

[drck1000]

Nice report and great shooting!

A local gun shop had the MWS with two barrels in stock for around $2900 or so. They dropped the price by a little over $200 after they sold one of the barrels. My first impression was that it's quite heavy and I would think it would take a LOT of training to get used to shooting it unsupported, but it that it would feel pretty solid shooting with a bipod.

The cost of the MWS and ammo to run it has it out of my range for now. I'm thinking an MRP may be possible in the near future. Do you have multiple barrels for the MWS and MRP? I see that you have an 18" SS barrel for the MRP. Did you also get a 16" CL barrel as well?

ETA: I've shot the Hornady Superformance 75 gr in my DDM4 middy and the casings showed signs of over pressure in the expansion of the case webbing in more than 50% of the casings. I later found the article on Hornady's website regarding the use of the Superformance ammo in semi-autos and that it performed better in rifle length gas systems and showed signd of over pressure in carbine and mid-length gas systems. I've contacted DD about this and they indicated that this ammo should run fine in the DDM4, but if I was concerned, to try a heavier buffer spring and/or buffer. Not sure what I will do with the rest of the Superformance ammo that I have left though.

[RD62]

Trident,

What were your impressions of the Winchester 168gr Ballistic Tip?

I used that ammo to great effect hunting whitetail with my Rem700 PSS and it seemed quite accurate when shot for groups (but then it wasn't a detachable mag fed gas gun and had a much longer barrel).