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Thread: 3-Gun Shooters: Rifle targets - distance and size

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    3-Gun Shooters: Rifle targets - distance and size

    For those that participate regularly, I'm curious as to what you find in your matches to be considered a "difficult" shot. Distance, size of target, any other mitigating circumstances, etc. I'm not talking about "this one time at band camp", but things your encounter at least somewhat routinely.

    For example, a 10" steel plate at 200 yards, or a 12" plate at 400 yards, etc.

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    Half silhouette at 200 plus unsupported, and also having to shoot off the weak side shoulder for just about anything (I really need to practice this a lot more).
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    *C-zone steel target at 300-425 yards using supported/prone positions

    *8"-10" round steel at 100-200 from offhand/supported after movement

    *Standard targets are paper from 0-100, as a baseline, and scored for accuracy
    Last edited by IrishDevil; 01-19-12 at 23:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    For those that participate regularly, I'm curious as to what you find in your matches to be considered a "difficult" shot. Distance, size of target, any other mitigating circumstances, etc. I'm not talking about "this one time at band camp", but things your encounter at least somewhat routinely.

    For example, a 10" steel plate at 200 yards, or a 12" plate at 400 yards, etc.
    It seems that most matches are trying to move to a 4 moa standard for target size. The targets I see and use myself that present the greatest challenge are MGM's auto poppers especially when put at 200 yards instead of the typical 100. They are 14 inches tall and 4 inches at their widest point. At 100 yards from a supported position they are easy but off a barricade with your breath going they can be tough. The hardest shot I have had to take was at Larue in 09. A 420 yard shot on a 10 inch MGM flasher target.
    Last edited by Alaskapopo; 01-20-12 at 04:10.
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    Are the size/distance typically known to you before you shoot or no? If so, are they part of the walkthrough/stage description or is it just something that gets passed around among the competitors as they chat waiting to shoot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Are the size/distance typically known to you before you shoot or no? If so, are they part of the walkthrough/stage description or is it just something that gets passed around among the competitors as they chat waiting to shoot?
    The distances are typically known.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    Are the size/distance typically known to you before you shoot or no? If so, are they part of the walkthrough/stage description or is it just something that gets passed around among the competitors as they chat waiting to shoot?
    I've seen some different formats, depending if you are shooting USPSA or an outlaw match. However, all stated the distance (or at least a close approximate).
    Target standardization also depended on overruling authority.
    Hard shots?
    Have seen 8-12" flash targets at 400-500 as well as hostage steel at 200.
    A lot of what makes the shot difficult is not the raw distance (as long as you know your zero and holds), but the position you have to shoot from.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    I've seen some different formats, depending if you are shooting USPSA or an outlaw match. However, all stated the distance (or at least a close approximate).
    Target standardization also depended on overruling authority.
    Hard shots?
    Have seen 8-12" flash targets at 400-500 as well as hostage steel at 200.
    A lot of what makes the shot difficult is not the raw distance (as long as you know your zero and holds), but the position you have to shoot from.
    Your right. The hardest targets I ever shot (I did not hit one of them) was in the 09 Larue match where we had to shoot at 10 inch flashers from prone left handed at 250 yards. I started practicing a lot more weak side rifle after that match.
    Pat
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    I would consider any unsupported offhand shot past 75 yards to start to become "hard." I would consider any prone shot past 250 to be "hard." I would consider any supported shot (offhand off a barricade, reverse kneeling etc) past 125 or 150 to be "hard." At Rio Salado's monthly match shots out to 300 (on Larues) are common and shots out to 500 meters are semiregular.

    When I say "hard," I'm referring to shots where the shooter really has to start taking the mechanics of shooting into account - not that they are some sort of impossible shots.

    Hard as in some of the tougher shots that I've seen in a match (at bandcamp), I would include:
    -the aforementioned support side shots from 09 Larue,
    -the 400 and 500 yard shots from the old SOF,
    any rifle stage at Rocky Mountain 3 Gun if the wind is blowing,
    -Kyle Lamb's Chinese Firewall stage from 2002 North American tactical which involved shooting from primary and support sides thru various ports at MGMs ending with the shooter standing on a little stick shooting offhand after running 50+ yards.
    -Kyle's 90 degree sideways shot on a 6 in plate at about 100 yards with a friggin' No Shoot behind it (pure evil)
    - Any rifle stage of the 1st Blue Ridge 3 Gun. Massive amounts of running followed by MGMs at all sorts of distances and an MGM twirler
    - Stage 9 of the Spartan Tactical Fallen Brethren 3 Gun Challenge.
    Last edited by kelly neal; 02-06-12 at 12:18.

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    Kelly,

    I agree completely with you.

    Im my training I have spent much more time on off hand and barricade work, compared to any other type of shooting.

    Some stages that come to mind from this year:

    - Finnish IPSC rifle championships, a forest stage with 14 paper targets mixed/dispersed in the shadow of the trees with varying visibility for the shooters during the match. Distance was c. 20-100 meters, off hand.

    Quick time to do the walkthrough and we just managed to get a good shooting order before starting.

    - Nordic Rifle match in Denmark a long rifle stage with the possibility of shooting two poppers from the prone, however not many opted for that as it would have taken time to go into the position and back from it.

    So most shot the poppers in the end, both of which triggered one paper target to swing at c. 50 meters. This was after running c. 100 meters at full tilt.

    Screenshot


    - Nordic Rifle Match, a stage which had 4 or 5 targets at 300 meters shot from a window with the wall having some "give", plenty of extra shots went there.

    Screenshot

    Last edited by Tuukka; 02-07-12 at 09:46.

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    Anything long range when it is evident that everyone who had any input into stage design shoots with a magnified optic.

    It's not much fun guessing where the gray target is in front of a graveled berm.


    Otherwise.... offhand shots after a lot of running are always tough.

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    We use 8in Flash targets put to 350 in Indiana Multigun.

    One of the clubs is a pistol club with a max distance on one of the bays of 40-50(I usually push it with stage design to get as much distance as possible). For that club I use the Newbold targets, 2in self healing rubber targets.
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    So the second part of this question, do the competitors know the distance/size prior to shooting the stage? If so, is it because they are directly told this information during walkthrough or in stage designs, or because they discuss it among themselves and agree on what they believe is the distance, or something else?

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    At the short range club it's left up to the competitor to figure it out, at the club that has out to 350, it's a CMP high power range that has every 50yds marked so it's just said in stage brief.
    Be without fear in the face of your enemies.
    Be brave and upright that God may love thee.
    Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death.
    Safe guard the helpless and do no wrong.


    In the end, as you fade into the night, who will tell, the story of your life?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    So the second part of this question, do the competitors know the distance/size prior to shooting the stage? If so, is it because they are directly told this information during walkthrough or in stage designs, or because they discuss it among themselves and agree on what they believe is the distance, or something else?
    Shooters almost always know both the distance and size of targets. Most matches use fairly standardized steel targets: MGM swingers, Larues, R and Rs etc. so we know the size. Some matches straight up tell the shooters the distances. At others we simply laze the targets and then tell the other shooters. I will usually try to get the distances early on, pre-walkthough at major matches.

    Locally in Phoenix, the shooters know all the distances at the ranges (Rio Salado and Phoenix Rod and Gun Club) so you can put a target anywhere on either range (which are also used for highpower and/or silhouette) and I can tell you what the distance is within 25 yards.

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