How to SBR Your Lower by Scottryan

[BigWaylon]

And I would argue that the trust doesn't own the SBR until it's approved, and the parts used to make that SBR could be bought/owned by anybody. Especially with the EForms system, most parts are paid for by an individual. The tax stamp isn't even paid for by the trust in most cases. (Some people do get a bank account, which is a waste of time, but don't have a credit card to use).

If you put the lower on the trust before it's approved, you've simply added a non-NFA firearm to your trust. No different than adding your 10/22 plinker, your regular concealed carry pistol or your favorite shotgun.

The trust can hold these items, but there's no requirement for it to be there. Bottom line is it works either way. Most people I know add them after the approval.

You won't be wrong or doing anything illegal whichever order you choose.

This is for the Form 1 SBR/SBS/etc. It is different for a F4, because you don't possess the weapon/suppressor until after approval, so you don't need to add it to the Schedule until stamp received.

[VeeDubbinJetta91]

Another fellow washintonian here that would love to get an SBR as soon as the law goes into effect. I have read through this thread as well as numerous others on here but I have a question, Can a pistol lower be converted into a SBR lower as long as the form and stamp is applied? Reason being is I do not have a whole lot of experience in building guns so if I could purchase one build like I did with my first S&W M&P rifle it would be easier for me. My thinking was if I could buy a Sig/Colt/etc. pistol now and shoot it as a pistol while I wait and fill out the proper SBR paperwork and then when the stamp comes in put a stock on it and all it good. Does it work that way or do I need to start with a "rifle" lower and build one up?
Thanks

[Eric D.]

There is no such thing as a pistol lower. A stripped lower is listed as an 'other' on the 4473, a complete rifle or a lower with a stock is listed as a long gun. I guess if you bought a complete lower built with a pistol buffer tube it would be transferred as a pistol. I don't remember if this if correct or not, it may be the other way around but if a lower is initially built into a pistol it is still legal to build it into a rifle. Now, if you have a lower transferred as a long gun or a lower that was previously built in a rifle configuration then building that lower into a pistol constitutes building of an NFA item. Once you have your stamp, though, it doesn't matter what the lower was previously configured as. Lots of people configure their lowers as pistols and buy shorty uppers while waiting for approval.

All of that said, it's your lower so you should be able to build it however you want. No one is ever going to know what configuration it used to be in unless you tell them.

Another fellow washintonian here that would love to get an SBR as soon as the law goes into effect. I have read through this thread as well as numerous others on here but I have a question, Can a pistol lower be converted into a SBR lower as long as the form and stamp is applied? Reason being is I do not have a whole lot of experience in building guns so if I could purchase one build like I did with my first S&W M&P rifle it would be easier for me. My thinking was if I could buy a Sig/Colt/etc. pistol now and shoot it as a pistol while I wait and fill out the proper SBR paperwork and then when the stamp comes in put a stock on it and all it good. Does it work that way or do I need to start with a "rifle" lower and build one up?
Thanks

[BigWaylon]

To add to the previous post...there are indeed stripped lowers marked "pistol". I have two of them, simply for the reason that I figured if I ever run into local LEOs that aren't knowledgeable in regards to NFA items, it may be one more thing to help me out.

Legally, it means nothing. I can build an AR pistol out of a lower not marked "pistol", and I can build a rifle out of one that is marked pistol...as they are all transferred as "other" on the 4473. No different than buying a lower marked .233/5.56 and building a 300BLK/6.8/22LR/etc rifle out of it.

A lot of people will keep a pistol lower around (pistol lower meaning a lower with LPK and pistol buffer tube installed, not a lower marked "pistol") so that they can buy pistol/SBR uppers whenever they want. I have a couple AR pistols built now, and once they transform into SBRs, there are other uppers sitting here waiting to be mounted on the pistol lowers.

[VeeDubbinJetta91]

Thanks for the info guys. I was at the LGS yesterday and ended up picking up a new stripped lower that I plan to use as an SBR build. While talking to the guys at the shop were saying that "rumor" was that Washington may not allow form 1 SBR's but only form 4's. Is this something that is even a possibility that the state could do or is it bs? Basically meaning I couldn't make my own SBR but I would have to buy one built from a manufacturer. I am not going to fill out any paperwork until the law actually goes into effect probably in June so I've got a little while.

On a side note, my plan was to pick up a 11.5 upper possibly DD MK18 or a BCM. Does building the lower as a pistol(sticking a pistol buffer) require any paper work and then if/when I got the tax stamp could I pull the pistol buffer tube off and put a rifle buffer tube with stock on it? My biggest worry is that if I have to wait 6-??? months to get a tax stamp, a lot can happen in that time frame and id hate to finally get an approved SBR lower only to find out uppers are somehow banned or skyrocket in price. That is why if I could build as a pistol for the time being I could buy the upper now if no extra/additional paperwork was required. Thanks in advance for info, hopefully these aren't stupid questions.

[BigWaylon]

Don't know the legality of the first one, so I'd just be guessing. States have banned SBRs, so there are definitely cases where states make "local" rules in regards to NFA...which just leads me to say that anything is possible.

No paperwork (as far as ATF goes) for AR pistol. They aren't legal in all states, so you'd need to know the local laws.

When you see a <16" upper for sale online, it usually says something like All NFA rules apply. This puts the burden of following the law on the customer, and allows them to ship it directly to your home. You can only mount it on a pistol lower or a registered SBR lower.

So, build the pistol lower and buy the upper. When stamp is approved, put a stock on it. I put pistol buffer tubes on mine. Some will advise you that a rifle buffer tube is fine as long as you don't have a spare stock around. Some people will take a rifle buffer tube and wrap paracord around it so a stock can't slide on. I don't know the ATF's opinion/interpretation of doing that, so I like the safer route of the pistol buffer tube. Plus, that way I keep my pistol lowers around. I can transport an AR pistol, or loan one to a friend, without any paperwork or worry about them illegally being in possession of an SBR.

[VeeDubbinJetta91]

Thanks for the info, I may go the pistol route for now with the pistol buffer tube to stay legal, I know ar pistols are legal in wa state so I'm good there. Once I find out all the technicalities of the new sbr law I will apply for my stamp then. Thanks again

[Iraqgunz]

They are marked as pistols by people who can seem to wrap their head around the law, the same with those who make "pistol only" buffer tubes. The rationale of your second paragraph makes little sense.

If I have a stripped lower and build it up (regardless of how it's configured) there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY for law enforcement to determine how you built it, and how it is configured and if you are changing it around.

To add to the previous post...there are indeed stripped lowers marked "pistol". I have two of them, simply for the reason that I figured if I ever run into local LEOs that aren't knowledgeable in regards to NFA items, it may be one more thing to help me out.

Legally, it means nothing. I can build an AR pistol out of a lower not marked "pistol", and I can build a rifle out of one that is marked pistol...as they are all transferred as "other" on the 4473. No different than buying a lower marked .233/5.56 and building a 300BLK/6.8/22LR/etc rifle out of it.

A lot of people will keep a pistol lower around (pistol lower meaning a lower with LPK and pistol buffer tube installed, not a lower marked "pistol") so that they can buy pistol/SBR uppers whenever they want. I have a couple AR pistols built now, and once they transform into SBRs, there are other uppers sitting here waiting to be mounted on the pistol lowers.

[BigWaylon]

They are marked as pistols by people who can seem to wrap their head around the law, the same with those who make "pistol only" buffer tubes. The rationale of your second paragraph makes little sense.

If I have a stripped lower and build it up (regardless of how it's configured) there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY for law enforcement to determine how you built it, and how it is configured and if you are changing it around.

Are you referring to the 2nd paragraph of mine that you quoted? If so, I'm not sure where the confusion is, as it agrees with you 100%.

I'm saying how the lower is marked from the manufacturer means nothing. It doesn't need to say "pistol" to build a pistol out of, and having "pistol" engraved on it doesn't mean you can't build a rifle from it instead. Just like having a lower marked 5.56/.223 doesn't mean that's the only caliber upper you can mount on it.

If we're talking something different, let me know so we can make sure the info is clear and correct.

[biggfoot44]

I had different set of parameters to deal with in my (unnamed) location. Mainly a time deadline that certain steps had to be completed before various windows closed permenently .

Even though I had always in the back of my mind planned on a Trust IF doing any NFA ownership , it became mandatory. The CLEO sign offs would take 4-6 months to come back , and that alone would be past the deadline. So put in a call to Atty specializing in Trusts and firearm issues.

In the case of the AR , spot a medimum brand complete lower at local FFL ( this is during the time of localized panic even greater than the national panic, and anything actually in stock for sale was rare , most FFL's had huge waiting lists ). Imeadately buy it . When it is released from purgatory , proceede directly to 007/SOT , slap the unopened box down , and tell him to Form 4 it . That way the SBR legally exists before the deadline , and the Trust has a grandfathered Purchase Order in effect.

Likewise my non-AR based SBR. Spotted it , didn't even get it papered to me as a rifle , just had the still other FFL ship it directly to my 007/S0T FFL to FFL .

And so far . I seem to have gotten luck with my proceeding sight unseen ( well at least not more than brief visual examination). My initial as soon as get home function testing , each works fine.

BTW , I had a pistol lower built from a striped virgin "other" reciever on hand to lend an aura of respectability to my vintage and brand new 10.5 uppers.

I did what I had to do , but everybody else please take more time and be methodical.