How to SBR Your Lower by Scottryan

[MH64]

Can line 4h (additional description) be left blank on a form 1 when submitted?

[elkslayer44]

Yes. Mine are all blank.

[Hmac]

Can line 4h (additional description) be left blank on a form 1 when submitted?

Opinions vary on that. I have always put my name/city/state in 4h...which is what the law requires that you engrave anyway.

[elkslayer44]

Well, I have 2 SBRs that are on approved Forms. I had the engraving done after I sent the forms in. I am an attorney (now retired) and I consulted with an NFA attorney before I filled in my forms. So I would stick with my answer that block 4h CAN be blank when you submit the form.


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[Hmac]

Well, I have 2 SBRs that are on approved Forms. I had the engraving done after I sent the forms in. I am an attorney (now retired) and I consulted with an NFA attorney before I filled in my forms. So I would stick with my answer that block 4h CAN be blank when you submit the form.


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I"m not sure that it really matters. I have read, over the years, of people reporting experiences with leaving 4H blank and not having a problem and I've read about people getting their Form 1 returned. It has always lead me to put something in box 4H. May very well not be necessary, but no advantage to leaving it blank

Like I said, I doubt it's a big deal. Generally, the worst that would happen is that they just return the form to you, you add something in box 4H and return it without delaying the form approval at all. More likely, nothing would happen.

[tnedator]

Ok, a couple questions. I have read the entire thread (ok, skimmed some posts), and I either missed these or they aren't covered.

If I go this route, it will be with a complete lower (purchased as a complete upper) that I currently have mated to a 16" upper.

1. When filling out the Form 1, does a class III/SOT dealer have to be involved like when filling out a form 4 for a transfer? Or, do I simply fill out all the information myself since I will be the manufacturer of the SBR?

2a. I've read a lot about determining overall length, when not in possession of the upper, such as taking the current OAL and subtracting the difference in barrel lengths. However, I haven't seen any mention of the 6 position stock and what position the stock should be in when determining OAL?

2b. I will most likely go with a DD mk18 upper (assuming I can find one after I get my SBR paperwork back), so what would be my best bet for calculating an accurate OAL on a lower with a 6 pos stock?

3. I had previously come across an engraver used by a lot of SBR guys, who does laser engraving that looks like the engravings/markings that come from the factory. Any suggestions on one that does good looking laser engraving?

Thanks

[elkslayer44]

1) You or your trust are the manufacturer. No need to involve anyone else.
2) OAL I think is determined with stock in shortest position. I have seen others write differently. I'm not aware of anything definitive from ATF on this.

[AFshirt]

Opinions vary on that. I have always put my name/city/state in 4h...which is what the law requires that you engrave anyway.

This is what the attorney who did my trust told me to do. Put the original lower manufacture on the form and then put my trust name, city and state in 4H.

[Hmac]

3. I had previously come across an engraver used by a lot of SBR guys, who does laser engraving that looks like the engravings/markings that come from the factory. Any suggestions on one that does good looking laser engraving?

I have always gone for unobtrusiveness, so I engrave in the trigger well. The lettering can be as small as 1/16th inch tall. Orion Arms or Ident Marking do an excellent job with nice, crisp lettering and blacked in nicely.

This is what the attorney who did my trust told me to do. Put the original lower manufacture on the form and then put my trust name, city and state in 4H.

Yes. Even if you put nothing in box 4H, you still have to engrave your name/city/state according to the NFA, so I always figured that it's probably better to put something in box 4H rather than leave it blank...so I just fill in what the law requires anyway. I know guys, however, that have left 4H blank and had no problem getting the form approved. I see no downside to putting name/city/state in 4H.

[elkslayer44]

As far as OAL is concerned there is a FAQ floating around that says you measure with stock extended. I have also seen info that you measure with stock collapsed. That FAQ interprets this sentence in the Code of Federal regulations to mean that you measure with stock extended: "The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore." 27 CFR 179.11. Of course that says nothing about collapsible stocks and im not aware of an ATF ruling. I'd like to know what the commercial manufacturers put on their Form 3s. Anyone know?