Recent manufacture M&P 9 accuracy

[GJM]

Due to some unusual circumstances, I ended up doing a first firing of seven recent manufacture M&P 9mm pistols today. They were 2 Pro's, 2 FS with TS, 2 FS w/out FS, and 1 compact with TS. Given reports of inconsistent accuracy with the 9 mm M&P's, I decided to shoot groups with each pistol at 25 yards on a PistolTraining.com target, as it is conducive to shooting groups. My position was sitting, which is stable for me, and I shot two five round groups with each pistol using WWB ammo. For a control, I shot a known accurate M&P 9 FS, and some other pistols.

1) M&P 9 FS, no TS, DCAEK trigger, HD sights. 8 inch group, as well centered as an 8 inch group can be, repeated twice. At that point, I started doubting my trigger control this morning, and shot a Glock 19 with HD sights I had with me. Shot two sub 3 inch groups with the 19 and HD sights. Followed up with old M&P 9 and shot two sub 3.5 inch groups.

2) M&P 9 FS, TS, stock sights and trigger. Both groups were 3.5 inches or better.

3) M&P 9 FS, TS, stock sights and trigger. Both groups were 3.5 inches or better.

4) M&P Pro. Both groups were larger than 6 inches.

5) M&P Pro. Both groups were 3.5 inches or better.

6) M&P 9 C, TS, stock sights and trigger. Group was 6 inches or larger. Elevation was good, dispersion was all in windage. Took another 9C upper I had, put it on the lower, and shot two groups 3.5 inches or smaller.

7) M&P 9 FS, no TS. Both groups were about six inches.

For control, I shot some other pistols and to verify some sights. G17 w/RMR 5 shot group well inside two inch PT dot. M&P 45 mid-size w/RMR, 230 HST, group right around 2.5 inches. G34 FO sights, 2 inch group. G26 group smaller than 3.5 inches.

Amazingly, the G26 with HD sights shot as well as the best new M&P pistol. While undoubtedly, my sitting groups were larger than shot from a bench, 4 out of 7 new M&P 9mm pistols were flat out unusable by my accuracy standards. Not sure what S&W will do when I box the four pistols up and send them back, but they need to be a lot more accurate or go away.

[JHC]

My Pro 9 was a 5-6" gun. I'd have kept it if it would have shown me 3.5". It wouldn't have had to shoot groups like the one in my avatar.

[varoadking]

Guess I got lucky...my new M&P9 shoots just fine...

[Hogsgunwild]

I have become much more fond of my 45 Midsize and Compact over my 9MM Fullsize and Compact due to their accuracy.

After taking all four to the range today and yesterday, I may pick up a H&K P30 9MM to tide me over until the Bar-Sto barrels are ready.
That, or, just shoot the 45s for awhile.

I knew prior to purchasing my M&Ps that by not waiting until Smith gets the bugs out of these guns, I would have to pony-up a bunch of extra cash to get them the way that I want them. I'm guess 1911s have made me immune to crying about dumping money into guns...

[MikeCLeonard]

This whole phenomenon has really bugged me lately. I sold off most of my random handguns with the goal of standardizing on one 9mm platform.

It came down between S&W M&P, Glock 3rd Gen, and Hk's P30 line. After owning and shooting all of these at one point or another...I decided the M&P would suite me best because of it's features and low cost.

Well now it looks like the M&P's will end up costing the same as the damn Hk's. Looks like it's gonna be between the Hk and Glock again.

[Hogsgunwild]

Originally Posted by MikeCLeonard

This whole phenomenon has really bugged me lately. I sold off most of my random handguns with the goal of standardizing on one 9mm platform.

It came down between S&W M&P, Glock 3rd Gen, and Hk's P30 line. After owning and shooting all of these at one point or another...I decided the M&P would suite me best because of it's features and low cost.

Well now it looks like the M&P's will end up costing the same as the damn Hk's. Looks like it's gonna be between the Hk and Glock again.

I'm in the same boat as you except that I plan to keep some .45s.
I was avoiding the high cost of H&Ks plus their magazines by going with the M&Ps but it is a wash now. The good thing is that the Bar-Sto barrel should make the M&P 9MM a great gun and I know that H&Ks work well for me. It's long road, isn't it?

[Shoulderthinggoesup]

I guess I got lucky with mine. I can shoot silver dollar groups at 15 yards all day. I did have to send the thing back when I first got it because the front sights were overmilled and they drifted when firing.

My bodyguard 380 is at s&w for the third time rigjt now for consistant light strikes. I have asked for a refund or replacement.

I won't be buying smiths anymore since everything I buy has to go back.....

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[MudPuppy]

Hmm!!!


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=36.206466,-115.244028

[Bsully]

Originally Posted by GJM

...and I shot two five round groups with each pistol using WWB ammo.

Just curious why just one brand of ammo in your tests
and how you came about eliminating the ammo as a possible contributing factor?

[jmp45]

Concerned about the accuracy of my mp9, would it be a reasonable test to use something like a Parallax rest for checking accuracy? In my mind it seems like it would help determine whether it's the shooter or firearm.

[Kevin P]

Originally Posted by Bsully

Just curious why just one brand of ammo in your tests
and how you came about eliminating the ammo as a possible contributing factor?

He tested with WWB and with AE in different weights as well as HSTs
I think that when GJM switched the barrels from a gun that shot well to the gun that didn't and nothing improved, that it would indicated a more deeply rooted issue.

I decided to try to troubleshoot three of the M&P pistols that were not shooting yesterday, and in response to several suggestions, wanted to test them with different ammo. I picked Federal HST 124 +P and Federal AE 147 grain ball as the additional loads, since they seemed to span the range of 9mm loadings.

1) M&P Pro, (was shooting 6-8 inches yesterday with WWB). First shot the AE 147 and got a nice 3.5 inch, or smaller, group. Repeated with the 124 +P HST and got an equally nice group. Repeated with WWB, to make sure it wasn't me, and got an 8 inch group.

2) M&P 9 FS, no TS (was shooting 8 inches yesterday with WWB). Neither the 147 AE or HST shot much better than the WWB.

3) M&P 9, no TS with HD sights and DCAEK (was shooting 8 inches yesterday). The HST shot closer to 5 inches, and the AE ball was just as bad as the WWB. I then grabbed a barrel out of a full size 9 that was shooting about 3.5 inches or better yesterday, and repeated the tests. The pistol still shot lousy, even with the "good" barrel.

[mallowpufft]

I saw this thread a couple days ago before I registered and about a week after I had bought an M&P 9c. I was feeling worried as up till today I'd only had time to put a couple mags through it. I hadn't had a chance to spend extended range time with it yet but today I set up around 10 yards to practice some draw and shoot drills from my CC holster.
I was short on time and some college kids pulled up and started scaring me with their safety practices so I only got to put 50 rounds through it before I packed up.
These were just low speed for building myscle memory/habit forming going from holstered to 3 shots on target both with my shirt covering holster and with it exposed.
I shot 4 three round groups, one mag, before starting with the holster. Those 12 rounds were within 2" total. My groups were averaging 1.5"
After that they stated to stray but hole to hole all 50 were within a 6" circle. It probably would have been tighter but the white paint came off the front sight at shot 32 and I got annoyed.
I plopped some in white paint tonight and told SWMBO that my sights broke and I need to replace them (with night sights; but she doesn't need to know that a blob of white paint on a toothpick will work for now).
My M&P has no internal lock or frame safety. Just the trigger.
I was shooting Wolf FMJ because it's cheap and I have a ton of it sitting around for when friends come over and don't bring enough ammo.

[GJM]

I pestered Randy Lee so much, that he finally agreed to lend me his prototype barrel to use at a Rogers Shooting School course next week. Randy had told me that this was a prototype barrel, obviously not fit to my slide, and not incorporating final improvements that are in process in the final pre-production test run -- in other words, he worked hard to temper my expectations.

While I really like M&P pistols, I have had a terrible time getting the 9mm models to shoot. Over time, I have accumulated a number of M&P 9's that shoot acceptably if not great, but each one tends to be unique to itself, in shooting just one or two loads, and having widely varying points of impact, especially windage, with different loads. The problem is bad enough, that I have been unable to get a full size 9 that shoots a practice and carry load accurately, to the same point of impact -- causing me to carry a Glock when I carry a 9mm.

I got the Apex barrel in my hot little hands this morning, and despite 25 knots of wind, got to shoot it at 25 yards in two M&P 9mm Pro models. Between the wind, and my 25 yard sitting position, this was a pretty casual test session, but this is what I learned. I shot the following loads, 147 HST, 124+P HST, 124 +P Ranger T, Aguila 124 ball, and Blazer 147 grain TMJ. In my two M&P Pro models, this Apex barrel definitely solved the windage point of impact problem. As to accuracy, in one Pro, the prototype barrel shot comparably to my factory barrel, and in the other Pro, it shot all the loads three inches or better, something I have NEVER experienced in any M&P 9mm.

Assuming the productions barrels do as well as this prototype, and Randy thinks they will be better, I would say that help is finally on the way for M&P 9 shooters!

[High Altitude]

So you buy a M&P9 and then call APEX and change out the trigger components and the barrel.........

Maybe APEX should just start manufacturing firearms????

[ralph]

Originally Posted by High Altitude

So you buy a M&P9 and then call APEX and change out the trigger components and the barrel.........

Maybe APEX should just start manufacturing firearms????

Well,If they ever did, I've no doubt THEIR version of a M&P would probably be a lightyear ahead of whatever S&W could do..

[bzdog]

Originally Posted by Hogsgunwild

If Walther had released a shorter grip version of the PPQ (between M&P 9MM compact and Glock 19 size) I would already have jumped over to the Walther boat. I would jump ship even faster yet if I could get my preferred sights for the PPQ (not at this time).

I'm contemplating doing a grip chop on my PPQ. It should take th P99c mag, so it doesn't seem overly daunting.

The sight issue seems a bit painfull at this point however.

-john

[Hogsgunwild]

Originally Posted by bzdog

I'm contemplating doing a grip chop on my PPQ. It should take th P99c mag, so it doesn't seem overly daunting.

The sight issue seems a bit painfull at this point however.

-john

That is a very intriguing thought. Looks to be a bit more involved than chopping a Glock, eh? I could live with a generic front night sight for awhile. Good idea.

[Noodles]

Originally Posted by Hogsgunwild

That is a very intriguing thought. Looks to be a bit more involved than chopping a Glock, eh? I could live with a generic front night sight for awhile. Good idea.

For what it's worth, I sold my P99c in favor of a PPS. I shoot that PPS about 3x better then I ever shot the 99c. It's not even close. My biggest issue with the 99c is that the grip is cut in such a way that there is zero lower palm contact, it was too hard to hold for me. The grip adapter fixed that but then I was using full size mags and ended up switching to the PPQ. Now I am best yet with that.

I would just get a p99c or PPS IMO.

[TAZ]

Originally Posted by mizer67

Mine seems to have gotten progressively worse the higher the round count went.

SCARY comment there. Unless you're talking about shooting enough to shoot out the barrel, that comment hints at a wear issue. Hopefully it's a wear issue in the barrel and not on the locking block or slide.

[mizer67]

Originally Posted by TAZ

SCARY comment there. Unless you're talking about shooting enough to shoot out the barrel, that comment hints at a wear issue. Hopefully it's a wear issue in the barrel and not on the locking block or slide.

The barrel isn't shot out, the 9mm FS I'm speaking of only had ~12,000 through it before I put it in the safe due to accuracy issues.

I'm guessing that as they wear in, the fit of the barrel gets even looser, leading to greater accuracy problems, but I really don't know.