what do you think about that shotgun slug? - Page 2

200RNL · #21 02-16-12, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by WS6

Traditional Foster slugs are very poor penetrators on hard objects, and game-animals alike. I have actually had one fail to penetrate more than 2 milk-jugs in a row filled with water.

Fosters may not be good against half inch steel plate but they are good at penetrating car bodies. Also, there must be a reason why they are considered good insurance while in bear country. Good penetration of tissue and bone is needed when facing an angry bear.

WS6 · #22 02-16-12, 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 200RNL

Fosters may not be good against half inch steel plate but they are good at penetrating car bodies. Also, there must be a reason why they are considered good insurance while in bear country. Good penetration of tissue and bone is needed when facing an angry bear.

Traditional Fosters are NOT good insurance in bear country. They are very soft and fragment/expand too violently. Very poor penetration on thick muscle and bone. Or even water jugs, as I found out myself.

Skintop911 · #23 02-16-12, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by WS6

Traditional Fosters are NOT good insurance in bear country. They are very soft and fragment/expand too violently. Very poor penetration on thick muscle and bone. Or even water jugs, as I found out myself.

I'm trying to stay open minded, but I'm having trouble reconciling that with the number of white tail and mule deer I've shot with 1oz fosters, and a few autopsies of folks who caught them.

There's always something more optimal, but I don't think the traditional foster is necessarily a bad choice for most folks. I've come to like the FC LE tru-ball very much for LE and defensive use.

WS6 · #24 02-16-12, 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skintop911

I'm trying to stay open minded, but I'm having trouble reconciling that with the number of white tail and mule deer I've shot with 1oz fosters, and a few autopsies of folks who caught them.

There's always something more optimal, but I don't think the traditional foster is necessarily a bad choice for most folks. I've come to like the FC LE tru-ball very much for LE and defensive use.

Foster slugs fragment at self-defense range. Just not optimal for penetration on a bear. Against people, I'm sure it's hell. Here is one example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HuVkXLreWE

If you think there are bear in the area, Ddupleks or Brenneke would be my choice. Probably Brenneke just because I am more familiar with them, although I had shot the Ddupleks and found them to perform as advertised. I have blown Fosters up on most everything I shot with them. Very poor penetration.
Another example:
http://www.brassfetcher.com/12gaugeFedTacSlug.html

Lots of deformation. Less penetration than a good 9mm JHP.

Skintop911 · #25 02-16-12, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by WS6

Foster slugs fragment at self-defense range. Just not optimal for penetration on a bear. Against people, I'm sure it's hell.

Yeah, I should've clarified. If I was intentionally or incidentally enountering bears, I'd want some purpose-built. I just didn't get the criticism of the fosters in general.

WS6 · #26 02-16-12, 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skintop911

Yeah, I should've clarified. If I was intentionally or incidentally enountering bears, I'd want some purpose-built. I just didn't get the criticism of the fosters in general.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/Shotshell_Data_Book.pdf

Please look at page 4 (slide 3). It says in pictures what I have been trying to say in words.

Foster slugs are crap for penetration. Your FC Tru-Ball gives a whopping 10" of penetration against bare gel, or heavy clothing.

tpd223 · #27 02-17-12, 01:24

That is one brand of slug on one set of tests.

Having seen people and deer blown up really, really badly with Foster style slugs I have no issue with them.

I'd pick a different slug for bears though.

WS6 · #28 02-17-12, 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpd223

That is one brand of slug on one set of tests.

Having seen people and deer blown up really, really badly with Foster style slugs I have no issue with them.

I'd pick a different slug for bears though.

I have seen the same thing from Remington and Winchester. A foster slug is very thin, like a shuttle-cock. They "doughnut" when they impact at high enough velocity. Sure, I agree they would work fine on thin-skinned game, and especially on a deer at 50+ yards or so. However, we agree with my original point--penetration is NOT their strong-point.

200RNL · #29 02-17-12, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by WS6

I have seen the same thing from Remington and Winchester. A foster slug is very thin, like a shuttle-cock.

I have recovered pristine Foster slugs that were fired into snow. They don't look anything like the unfired slug. At the moment of firing they slug up to the diameter of the bore and lose half their length. The rifling on the sides of the slug is compressed and almost unrecognizable.

When recovered, they look like a very short, blunt, round nose lead bullet with a shallow concave base. It's a really amazing transformation in appearence and shows the large amount of stress these projectiles experience when fired.

tpd223 · #30 02-17-12, 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by WS6

I have seen the same thing from Remington and Winchester. A foster slug is very thin, like a shuttle-cock. They "doughnut" when they impact at high enough velocity. Sure, I agree they would work fine on thin-skinned game, and especially on a deer at 50+ yards or so. However, we agree with my original point--penetration is NOT their strong-point.

I agree that penetration in heavy animals is not a strong point for standard Foster slugs, but I believe it is one reason why they work so well on people.
They expand hugely (yes, that is a word!) and often fragment, and seem to cause a massive temp cavity, well into the area of where it adds to the tissue damage.

200RNL · #31 02-17-12, 19:16

DocGKR · #32 02-18-12, 02:02

I am NOT a fan of typical Foster type slugs. When I use a slug, it is generally with the goal of penetrating something--often times intermediate barriers or large dangerous animals. For that role, both 1 oz Brenneke slugs and the new Federal (PB127 DPRS) Truball Deep Penetrator 1 oz slug work far better than Foster type slugs.

200RNL · #33 02-18-12, 10:54

Are there any wound profile images like the one above, for Brenneke slugs? It would be an interesting comparison.

DocGKR · #34 02-18-12, 14:22

Looks basically exactly the same, except the Brenneke's can go slightly deeper with just a bit larger TC depending on which specific load is under consideration...

Brenneke Tactical Home Defense

Brenneke Classic Magnum

DocGKR · #35 02-19-12, 02:47

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=99583

tpd223 · #36 02-19-12, 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocGKR

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=99583

Thanks for the info, very useful to have for LE folks who have to shop for agency ammo.

That new Federal high penetration slug looks like it would be a very good choice for use in bear country.

WS6 · #37 04-27-12, 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocGKR

I am NOT a fan of typical Foster type slugs. When I use a slug, it is generally with the goal of penetrating something--often times intermediate barriers or large dangerous animals. For that role, both 1 oz Brenneke slugs and the new Federal (PB127 DPRS) Truball Deep Penetrator 1 oz slug work far better than Foster type slugs.

I thought the DPRS was a Foster style slug, just made from tougher alloy than typical. Does it differ in other ways, as well?

hamour · #38 04-30-12, 00:12

You boy's is missing the boat. The Dixie Slugs TriBall loading will handle your shot gun problems with ease.

3 x .60 round-balls of hard cast lead will handle most critters.

http://www.dixieslugs.com/home.html

Only draw back is it takes a 3" or 3.5" gun to shoot them.

bzdog · #39 04-30-12, 16:54

Don't forget the Dixie DGS hardened slug.

Personally I think the FC #1 buck as primary with a couple DGS' on the side-saddle make a optimal pairing.

-john

hamour · #40 04-30-12, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by bzdog

Don't forget the Dixie DGS hardened slug.

Personally I think the FC #1 buck as primary with a couple DGS' on the side-saddle make a optimal pairing.

-john

I agree bzdog. Any 3" # 1 Buckshot load solves most problems. 24 .30 caliber pellets is tough on most animals or social problems.

I have killed some big hogs with # 1 buck and while some did not get through the boars shield, the rest tore up his vitals and broke his legs, letting me finish him off with ease.

But some of the guys was talking about big bears and the Dixie products are made just for that situation. So I brought them up, thanks for reminding me of their big slugs.