Can we just arrest everyone who works for the TSA now?

[Moose-Knuckle]

Originally Posted by J-Dub

Conditioning. Thats all the TSA is there to do. Condition people to believe its ok to accept radiation poisoning, be groped, fondled, and molested.

First it was the Airports, now they're moving to the hwys.....whats next? Malls? Banks?

Spot on. We haven't seen anything yet.

Last time I flew (which is rare) I refused the scanner and requested a pat-down. What a joke. So much for the 4th. . .

[Buckaroo]

Don't worry, these guys have the situation well in hand.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...ug-arrest.html

[Moose-Knuckle]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo

Don't worry, these guys have the situation well in hand.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...ug-arrest.html

I think they had a similar incident in Hawai'i that a dozen TSA "agents" were terminated over.

Edit: Oops make that 36 "agents" that got the can! And this was the last airport I have flown out of LOL.

TSA firing 36 Honolulu Airport workers, suspends 12 others
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/b...l?id=123650439

[Jellybean]

*sigh*
It's times like these that almost make me wish I had stuck with the flying lessons a little while longer....
Almost.

[Irish]

How about pat downs of 7 year old girls with cerebral palsy?

[Ned Christiansen]

My every experience, every single one, with TSA has been positive. That is maybe 20 - 25 flights, most with firearms. I have found them to be helpful and understanding on the gun thing, and unlike airline counter personnel, they know the rules and never get all "eek" about it.

I don't blame them for all the inconvenience-- they're just doing a job. For me personally, they've always done it well-- always politely and sometimes with a little personality and humor thrown in.

Maybe I've just been lucky but based on my experiences I feel like every TSA employee takes an unjustified beating for what seem to be statistically very few negative incidents.

[J-Dub]

Originally Posted by Ned Christiansen

Maybe I've just been lucky but based on my experiences I feel like every TSA employee takes an unjustified beating for what seem to be statistically very few negative incidents.

Its a violation of 4th amendment rights. They are fucking scumbags. They harass and molest the young and elderly....oh but they're just doing their job......what they do is not only ILLEGAL its immoral.

Seriously, who in the hell could get away with taking basically pornographic pictures of every citizen that decides to exercise their right to travel? Or molest children and elderly folks? Apparently the sicko TSA pervs and the federal government.

And when the States try to exercise their 10th amend. rights to protect the citizens 4th amend rights, the Feds threaten to enforce a No fly zone/blockade on said state (Texas)

[Moose-Knuckle]

Originally Posted by Ned Christiansen

I don't blame them for all the inconvenience-- they're just doing a job.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but. . .

That is what the guards out Auschwitz said, "I was just doing my job". While I realize that the TSA "agents" are not taking people to gas chambers and ovens they do violate the 4th Amendment rights of countless citizens. Strip searching 98 year old women who wear diapers, up close and personal "pat-downs" on infants, toddlers, et al.

Lady Liberty weaps. . .

[glocktogo]

Originally Posted by J-Dub

Its a violation of 4th amendment rights. They are fucking scumbags. They harass and molest the young and elderly....oh but they're just doing their job......what they do is not only ILLEGAL its immoral.

Seriously, who in the hell could get away with taking basically pornographic pictures of every citizen that decides to exercise their right to travel? Or molest children and elderly folks? Apparently the sicko TSA pervs and the federal government.

And when the States try to exercise their 10th amend. rights to protect the citizens 4th amend rights, the Feds threaten to enforce a No fly zone/blockade on said state (Texas)

Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but. . .

That is what the guards out Auschwitz said, "I was just doing my job". While I realize that the TSA "agents" are not taking people to gas chambers and ovens they do violate the 4th Amendment rights of countless citizens. Strip searching 98 year old women who wear diapers, up close and personal "pat-downs" on infants, toddlers, et al.

Lady Liberty weaps. . .

Was it a 4th Amendment violation before 9/11 when the airlines were doing it (it began in 1973)? Or was it OK because they didn't do it very well? The Supreme Court has recognized a “special needs exception” to the Fourth Amendment’s warrant requirement. That exception applies to certain searches, often referred to as administrative searches, that are not part of normal law enforcement and for which the warrant requirement isn’t practical. Airport searches fit into this category.

Your concerns about the searches should rightly be directed at the Supreme Court, not TSA. Perhaps in the future, SCOTUS will rule on what is a reasonable administrative search at airports, restricting the types of searches TSA can do. At least we can hope so.

[davidjinks]

If you go by the letter of the law, yes, it is a violation of the 4th amendment. The constitution doesn't say this only applies to LE, it's understood that NO ONE can violate your 4th amendment rights.

Example: I cannot just decide to stop you, search your bags and pockets for no good reason on the street (As a civilian) and neither can a police officer or federal agent.

What the TSA uses is called "Implied Consent". That means YOU KNOW that if you're going to fly you will be searched and the simple act of you buying a ticket and showing up to a FEDERAL SECURITY CHECKPOINT you are acknowledging that you're okay with being searched.

I have never agreed with this.

Originally Posted by glocktogo

Was it a 4th Amendment violation before 9/11 when the airlines were doing it (it began in 1973)? Or was it OK because they didn't do it very well? The Supreme Court has recognized a “special needs exception” to the Fourth Amendment’s warrant requirement. That exception applies to certain searches, often referred to as administrative searches, that are not part of normal law enforcement and for which the warrant requirement isn’t practical. Airport searches fit into this category.

Your concerns about the searches should rightly be directed at the Supreme Court, not TSA. Perhaps in the future, SCOTUS will rule on what is a reasonable administrative search at airports, restricting the types of searches TSA can do. At least we can hope so.

[CaptainDooley]

I always opt out of the body scanners because I've never felt the pat downs that I have received are overly-intrusive AND I don't trust the Federal government with an electronic copy of a highly invasive x-ray photo of me.

But 4th amendment aside, the TSA needs to be disbanded because it is largely ineffective. They have not stopped one threat (that I have seen reported) and in fact there are dozens of reports of threats being found past TSA checkpoints and of people with contraband items past TSA checkpoints.

From my own life: Last fall I flew from Dallas to Chicago Midway. I was going to attend a carbine course with a friend and had thought that I had checked all my weapons and gear. However, I forgot that my daily carry bag, which mostly holds an iPad, a first aid kit, and some various other items, also has my AR leatherman strapped to the outside of it. I made it to Chicago with no issues... WITH A KNIFE ON THE PLANE. Because this item lives there all the time, I was completely oblivious to this.

Then I attempted to come home, still not remembering it was there. Going through security they ran my bag multiple times and asked me to wait. Finally the TSA clerk comes over and asks if he can search my bag. I say yes. He goes right to the Leatherman and I instantly realize why the hassle and I'm starting to get agitated because I'm going to loose a nearly $200 item due to my own carelessness.

He pulls it out and asks me about it. I tell him I use it often at work and so it's always on my bag. He informs me that if it has a knife on it, they won't be able to let me pass with it. After a couple minutes of turning it round and round and randomly opening different tools he hands it to me, thanks me for my time and sends me on my way... because he wasn't smart enough to find a very obvious knife blade on a tool that always includes a knife blade. My tax dollars, hard at work...

[Irish]

I highly recommend the documentary Please Remove Your Shoes. It's available on Netflix and in streaming format for instant viewing. Interviewing lots of FAM's, pilots, politicians and terrorism experts on the TSA goatfuck.

This troubling documentary examines the Transportation Security Administration's role as protector of the American skies, raising questions about the disturbing gap between the federal agency's avowed purpose and actual airport safety since 9/11.

[CarlosDJackal]

Originally Posted by J-Dub

Its a violation of 4th amendment rights...

Not a lawyer nor am I defending the TSA, but please explain why what they are doing is a violation of anyone's Fourth Amendment Rights, Thanks in advanced.

Here's the text in case we are talking about a different amendment:

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[CarlosDJackal]

Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but. . .

That is what the guards out Auschwitz said, "I was just doing my job". . .

Holy crap!! I didn't know the TSA was transporting people to be gassed and incinerated!! They have got o be stopped and stopped now!!

A bit over dramatic, don't you think? I never knew there were so many Drama Queens on here. LOL.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Originally Posted by CarlosDJackal

Holy crap!! I didn't know the TSA was transporting people to be gassed and incinerated!! They have got o be stopped and stopped now!!

A bit over dramatic, don't you think? I never knew there were so many Drama Queens on here. LOL.

Speaking of "drama queens". . .

I guess you failed to read the next sentence in my post:

Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle

While I realize that the TSA "agents" are not taking people to gas chambers and ovens they do violate the 4th Amendment rights of countless citizens.

[glocktogo]

Originally Posted by CarlosDJackal

Not a lawyer nor am I defending the TSA, but please explain why what they are doing is a violation of anyone's Fourth Amendment Rights, Thanks in advanced.

Here's the text in case we are talking about a different amendment:

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

It's the second half that TSA doesn't comply with, hence the implied consent part. If the SCOTUS were to rule implied consent invalid, it would overturn numerous local, state and federal laws, and all those private employer consent to search rules. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say SCOTUS isn't going to poke that bear.

[TAZ]

Originally Posted by CarlosDJackal

Not a lawyer nor am I defending the TSA, but please explain why what they are doing is a violation of anyone's Fourth Amendment Rights, Thanks in advanced.

Here's the text in case we are talking about a different amendment:

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Well, they are searching people and their effects without warrants or articulated probable cause. When you go through the x-ray scanner they search your person and the same goes for your bags. All of that is done without a warrant or probable cause. They do it simply cause you are there and intend to travel. Essentially, you are considered guilty until you go through the process and prove you're not a threat. One more thing that I believe goes counter to what is intended in the Constitution. The only reason they can do it is because of implied consent aka the you don't have to be here none sense. It's going to be interesting when the TSA officially spread to the other modes of transport. There will come a time when you won't have an option but to go through their asinine procedures simply to get to work. What are people's excuses for their behavior going to be then. For the record I have always felt this way not just post 9/11. However, since 9/11 I have relegated air travel to the absolute bottom of the list.

In fairness to TSA, the few times I have traveled they have been OK. They do their jobs and we move along. I am relatively sure that not one among them knows their head from a hole in the ground when it comes to the safety of travelers, but they do their thing and follow their procedures. I have yet to witness anyone go out of their way to be assholes to anyone.

Criminal behavior among their ranks, failures to identify threats, and general cluelessness when it comes to creating an unsafe area for travelers in the form of huge crowds in confined spaces reaffirm my initial assessment that they are there to make your average American traveler FEEL safe and nothing more. Personally I'd rather BE safer, which is why I stay the hell away from them as long as I can.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I think the 4th issues really start when TSA takes the "T" to the extreme and starts checkpoints where there were never checkpoints. Mass transit, maybe; open road searches, not even close.

[Moose-Knuckle]

Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand

I think the 4th issues really start when TSA takes the "T" to the extreme and starts checkpoints where there were never checkpoints. Mass transit, maybe; open road searches, not even close.

TSA's Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response (VIPR) teams . . .

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...s-police-state

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

[Moose-Knuckle]

The TSA agent said, again, in full voice, "There's an anomaly in the crotch area.", of the 4'-11" 79 year old. . .

http://news.yahoo.com/tsa-found-anom...162757933.html