FN SPR A3G - Page 7

a0cake · #**121** 05-21-12, 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietShootr

I can get prone in the dirt, which would probably be better. Would you still recommend bagging front and rear in prone? I was trying to keep the gun in as close to its final config as I could, but I guess it does make sense to take out as many variables as possible first.

Yeah, getting the bipod on soft ground will help, as I'm sure you're tracking. But if you can use a bag up front, I still recommend doing that at this point. If you still have the same exact single flier problem shooting off a front bag, then just go back to the bipod since that will be your standard platform and continue working on a solution. If the flier issue disappears when using the bag, then you will know what the issue was (combination of technique and benching with a bipod...probably mostly the latter).

I think and hope that the problem will go away when you use the bag or when you use the bipod from the prone on soft ground. I'm honestly pretty surprised your results are so good shooting the bipod off a bench, especially with nothing to press it up against or dig into. For me, shooting off a bench with a bipod is one of the most frustrating tasks. Getting completely square with the rifle and centering yourself behind the recoil is so central to precision shooting, and that setup just makes it damn near impossible to do perfectly. Your shoulders / torso starts to pivot and all kinds of funky shit happens.

PS. Out of curiosity, what do your groups measure in MOA, with and without the single errant rounds?

PSS. I don't mean to dial in on your technique, and I know you're a capable shooter. But no matter how shit hot you are, it's never a bad idea to reexamine what you're doing and adjust. I occasionally find myself going on witch-hunts with my equipment, when I should really be scrutinizing myself. It's a tendency that even the best of us need to be honest about and work on. Of course it absolutely could be the equipment in your case, but still, I'd change up your shooting position before getting too distraught over it.

QuietShootr · #**122** 05-21-12, 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by a0cake

Yeah, getting the bipod on soft ground will help, as I'm sure you're tracking. But if you can use a bag up front, I still recommend doing that at this point. If you still have the same exact single flier problem shooting off a front bag, then just go back to the bipod since that will be your standard platform and continue working on a solution. If the flier issue disappears when using the bag, then you will know what the issue was (combination of technique and benching with a bipod...probably mostly the latter).

I think and hope that the problem will go away when you use the bag or when you use the bipod from the prone on soft ground. I'm honestly pretty surprised your results are so good shooting the bipod off a bench, especially with nothing to press it up against or dig into. For me, shooting off a bench with a bipod is one of the most frustrating tasks. Getting completely square with the rifle and centering yourself behind the recoil is so central to precision shooting, and that setup just makes it damn near impossible to do perfectly. Your shoulders / torso starts to pivot and all kinds of funky shit happens.

PS. Out of curiosity, what do your groups measure in MOA, with and without the single errant rounds?

PSS. I don't mean to dial in on your technique, and I know you're a capable shooter. But no matter how shit hot you are, it's never a bad idea to reexamine what you're doing and adjust. I occasionally find myself going on witch-hunts with my equipment, when I should really be scrutinizing myself. It's a tendency that even the best of us need to be honest about and work on. Of course it absolutely could be the equipment in your case, but still, I'd change up your shooting position before getting too distraught over it.

No, absolutely no offense taken - I would rather it be a technique issue at this point. I am very rusty relatively speaking - I last seriously shot precision when I was detailed to SARTS in '04.

OK - with the good 44gr load, the group without the flyer is .31 MOA, and with it it's 1.02 MOA. With the FGMM, the group is .16MOA without the flyer and .72MOA with it. (based on true MOA, 2.094 at 200).

ICANHITHIMMAN · #**123** 05-21-12, 11:04

As per all our old discusions get another shooter and not one of the guys you used before its time for new eyes.

QuietShootr · #**124** 05-21-12, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICANHITHIMMAN

As per all our old discusions get another shooter and not one of the guys you used before its time for new eyes.

Guys that can shoot 5-round bug holes at 200 don't just grow on trees, you know?

I'm going to try bagging it from prone, hopefully this afternoon, and see what happens.

QuietShootr · #**125** 05-22-12, 21:17

Still waiting - some assholes decided to water ski across my range :-P

In the meantime I did some brass prep - trimmed 100 Federal 2010 match cases to 2.005 +/-.002 (put the ones that didn't make the cut into a batch for the SCAR), uniformed the primer pocket and flash hole, and made them ready for the load, which as of now is:

44.0 gr Varget
CCI BR-2 primer
178gr AMAX
Federal Match 2010 case
2.800" OAL

Gives a good consistent 2650fps.

Will report back after I've had a chance to bag the gun and shoot some 10 round groups at 200.

I might add: I'm changing up the cleaning technique. I'm not going to clean at all until I think accuracy is being affected.

ICANHITHIMMAN · #**126** 05-23-12, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietShootr

Still waiting - some assholes decided to water ski across my range :-P

In the meantime I did some brass prep - trimmed 100 Federal 2010 match cases to 2.005 +/-.002 (put the ones that didn't make the cut into a batch for the SCAR), uniformed the primer pocket and flash hole, and made them ready for the load, which as of now is:

44.0 gr Varget
CCI BR-2 primer
178gr AMAX
Federal Match 2010 case
2.800" OAL

Gives a good consistent 2650fps.

Will report back after I've had a chance to bag the gun and shoot some 10 round groups at 200.

I might add: I'm changing up the cleaning technique. I'm not going to clean at all until I think accuracy is being affected.

Sounds good what are you taking you COAL with and just FYI I have not cleaned my 300 win in more than 400 rounds

QuietShootr · #**127** 05-24-12, 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICANHITHIMMAN

Sounds good what are you taking you COAL with and just FYI I have not cleaned my 300 win in more than 400 rounds

I've been doing it tip to base, and I know that's wrong - with SMKs you wind up all over the place, AMAXs seem to be better in that regard. In any event I just ordered some appropriate tools from Sinclair to measure base-to-ogive two different ways.

ICANHITHIMMAN · #**128** 05-24-12, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietShootr

I've been doing it tip to base, and I know that's wrong - with SMKs you wind up all over the place, AMAXs seem to be better in that regard. In any event I just ordered some appropriate tools from Sinclair to measure base-to-ogive two different ways.

Great thats what I was hoping to here. I was chasing COAL when I first started in this came.

Pappabear · #**129** 05-26-12, 19:20

Quiet,

Finally got my FN SPR out on the range. Mine is the lower end gun, don't know if they choose better barrels for the 1/2 inch guns. Interesting findings: it shot the SMK's fair. I had
42.8 Varget, 168 &175
43.8 Varget 168 & 175
IMR 4064 just 168's.

All held MOA. I had flyers , usually shooter error or the wind was gusting all morning. Then I pulled some factory ammo I bought a couple years ago. Federal Gold match Sierra 168, did not impress. About the same as other loads.

Then I pulled Tap 168 AMAX , .5 inch group.
Then I tried some hornady match ammo, 168 AMAX. .5 groups.

Nosler Custom did pretty well too. On the way home I bought a couple hundred 168 AMAX to load with Varget.

Maybe these FN's like AMAX BULLETS, OR maybe just mine does. If you get a chance, give them a try and let me know. It was Signifigant. Whatever load you prove to be great, keep me posted.

QuietShootr · #**130** 05-28-12, 22:54

90 degrees, clear and sunny, 40%RH, 710' altitude.

Final load: Federal Match .308 brass, trimmed to 2.004", primer pocket uniformed and flash hole deburred (this was a surprising process - most of them had burrs in them.) 43.0gr of Varget over a CCI BR-2 benchrest primer, 178gr AMAX bullet seated to a base-to-ogive OAL of 4.174" using a http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pi...let-Comparator, which gave an average velocity of 2541 fps using a PACT XP Professional chronograph. The loads were assembled on a Redding D7 turret press using Redding micrometer seating die and the powder charges were thrown using a PACT dispenser/scale system.

Setup was prone and bagged front and rear, no rests or hardware at all, and finally the wind was at my 6:00 all day today for a change.

I tested loads from 41.0 gr to 44.0gr keeping all other parameters the same. 43.0 appears to be the magic number for this combination.

All other loads were between 1/2 and 3/4MOA...but at 43.0, something happened.

Fuck me running. I fired two more groups with the same load and got nearly identical results, one slightly tighter that I couldn't really measure because of the tearing of the paper, and one slightly larger. I'm going to get heavier card stock to print the targets on so as to cut crisper holes next time, but as best I can measure with calipers, that looks like 0.075". I'm pretty sure continuing to fuck around with the load would be what Colonel Cooper used to call "PII", or Preoccupation with Inconsequential Information.

So I expect things will open up when I put it back on the bipod and rear monopod. The question will be how much, and how to control it.

And anyone who previously criticized my shooting is welcome to tongue my bag. :-D (ETA, not you guys, ao and ican)

Mjolnir · #**131** 05-29-12, 05:45

Great news!

Congrats, my friend.

ICANHITHIMMAN · #**132** 05-29-12, 08:45

Thats good to here. I told ya its the little things what were the es and sd numbers on that 43g load? Im just curious

QuietShootr · #**133** 05-29-12, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICANHITHIMMAN

Thats good to here. I told ya its the little things what were the es and sd numbers on that 43g load? Im just curious

SD was 19.9 fps and ES was 49.1 fps when I chronographed it the previous day. I did NOT have the chronograph set up when I fired these groups. I know that's not stellar, so I'll be working to improve it. The charges were all +/- .0 grains, so I assume it might be a neck tension issue or something of that nature.

ETA: Fuck me...that's a difference of 18.7" or .6mrad in elevation at 1k. Looks like I still have some work to do.

QuietShootr · #**134** 05-29-12, 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

Great news!

Congrats, my friend.

Thanks, dude. Get your precision stuff together and come over - you have an open invitation.

Pappabear · #**135** 05-29-12, 13:30

Quiet,

Good to see you got that monster squared away.

PB

VooDoo6Actual · #**136** 05-29-12, 14:32

nice shooting.

orkan · #**137** 05-29-12, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietShootr

So I expect things will open up when I put it back on the bipod and rear monopod. The question will be how much, and how to control it.

And anyone who previously criticized my shooting is welcome to tongue my bag. :-D (ETA, not you guys, ao and ican)

I'm confused. How does you shooting off bags, knowing and stating that moving to a bipod will likely open up your groups, somehow let you off the hook? Also, hundred yard performance doesn't really mean dick when considering long range. Load development should be done at 300yds plus... not 100yds.

I'm glad you are getting it sorted and are happy... but try to keep perspective. In the meantime I won't be tonguing any part of you.

Mjolnir · #**138** 05-29-12, 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietShootr

Thanks, dude. Get your precision stuff together and come over - you have an open invitation.

Will do, my friend. Looking forward to it.

QuietShootr · #**139** 05-29-12, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by orkan

I'm confused. How does you shooting off bags, knowing and stating that moving to a bipod will likely open up your groups, somehow let you off the hook? Also, hundred yard performance doesn't really mean dick when considering long range. Load development should be done at 300yds plus... not 100yds.

I'm glad you are getting it sorted and are happy... but try to keep perspective. In the meantime I won't be tonguing any part of you.

Since you were confused, I decided since I had a little daylight left I'd help you out,broseph. Plus the range is only 5 minutes away.

I even took some pictures with DTG superimposed just so's you know I ain't kiddin' neither.

Here's our 400 yard target.

Looking back at the shooting position from the target:

Looking downrange toward the target from the shooting position:

The setup. Bipod, rear bag.

Fired three rounds, then went and retrieved the target.

A little math....

At 400 yards, 1/2 MOA is 2.094". This group measures 1.892".

And a good-night pic with everything in it...

You've heard the phrase "Alligator mouth, hummingbird ass", right? I'm more 'Alligator mouth, Alligator ass".

We cross, or are we friends again?

orkan · #**140** 05-30-12, 00:13

While we weren't friends before... and won't be going forward unless we happen to meet and get to know one another... this does tell much more of the story.

Know what would tell even more?

5 shots.