Bolt carrier locked back, ready to go

[BigLarge]

I noticed several officer's I worked with have the carrier locked back with the bolt catch, ready to go in their cases/gun racks. I asked them why they did this, which they explained "would make the weapon faster to charge" when they deployed them.

First time I've ever seen anyone do this. Thoughts?

[Iraqgunz]

Yes, it is called stupid and means that they need to get some proper training.

[021411]

Originally Posted by BigLarge

I noticed several officer's I worked with have the carrier locked back with the bolt catch, ready to go in their cases/gun racks. I asked them why they did this, which they explained "would make the weapon faster to charge" when they deployed them.

First time I've ever seen anyone do this. Thoughts?

I'm pretty sure they don't have a dept carbine program.

[kmrtnsn]

"Cruiser carry"

Without a magazine inserted, lock bolt to rear, inspect chamber, release bolt forward, place selector on fire, point in safe direction, pull trigger on an empty chamber.

Attempt to move selector, it should not move. Close the dust cover, this will now serve as a status change indicator, insert loaded magazine, lock carbine into vehicle rack.

The weapon now cannot possibly fire. It is loaded, however the chamber is empty and the hammer is resting on the firing pin. The bolt position will not allow the selector to move, attempting to move the selector tells the officer the weapons is in the carry configuration. The dust cover, if found to be open, indicates the carry configuration has changed and the officer should safely inspect the weapon to verify its condition. Charging the weapon cocks the hammer, chambers a round, and returns the weapon to a firing condition.

[021411]

Not a problem with that method as all depts have their own but I surely hope the officer indexes or remembers to put the selector to safe unless he/she is shooting of course with the above method. Not every officer is a gun person.
Our dept just requires us to have the chamber empty with a mag in.
I keep mine hammer back on safe, bolt forward, empty chamber, mag in.

Edited to add, we don't share weapons. Our carbines are privately owned.

[Txs]

Originally Posted by kmrtnsn

"Cruiser carry"

Without a magazine inserted, lock bolt to rear, inspect chamber, release bolt forward, place selector on fire, point in safe direction, pull trigger on an empty chamber.

That's a completely unnecessary step and a potentially dangerous move to require personnel to conduct on a routine basis.

In addition, with this system anytime your personnel have to chamber a round in the field (which should occur before a target is even presented) they're immediately holding a hot/safety off weapon - and quite often they'll be running as this occurs.

The bottom line is that dropping the hammer on an empty chamber creates much more danger than it's intended to alleviate.

I've been an instructor for a few decades. The universally accepted SOP for AR/M16 'routine carry' condition is chamber empty, selector on safe, dust cover closed, loaded magazine inserted.

The only time that safety should come off is when swept to the FIRE position as the gun is brought up on an identified target.

[polymorpheous]

Here's an experiment:
Lock your bolt back.
Now, slap the back of your buttstock.
What just happened?

[polymorpheous]

Originally Posted by Txs

That's a completely unnecessary step and a potentially dangerous move to require personnel to conduct on a routine basis.

In addition, with this system anytime your personnel have to chamber a round in the field (which should occur before a target is even presented) they're immediately holding a hot/safety off weapon - and quite often they'll be running as this occurs.

The bottom line is that dropping the hammer on an empty chamber creates much more danger than it's intended to alleviate.

I've been an instructor for a few decades. The universally accepted SOP for AR/M16 'routine carry' condition is chamber empty, selector on safe, dust cover closed, loaded magazine inserted.

The only time that safety should come off is when swept to the FIRE position as the gun is brought up on an identified target.

Some highly reputable intructors will say that the selector moves to fire when you have aquired a sight picture.

[davidjinks]

Is there a way to correct the SOP in regards to having the weapons in these configurations?

Personally, having the weapon on fire with a magazine in is asking for problems. But that's just my opinion.

[C4IGrant]

Simply a bad idea as the bolt won't stay locked back for long (bouncing around in the cruiser).



C4

[Clint]

It is a bad idea to have the bolt locked back over a fresh mag.

A good bump will send the BCG forward, inadvertantly chambering a round.

Carry over a closed chamber is the way to go.

Simply running the CH makes the weapon ready to go.

Originally Posted by BigLarge

I noticed several officer's I worked with have the carrier locked back with the bolt catch, ready to go in their cases/gun racks.

[TX Rancher]

It appears the concensus of the group is the bolt should be forward on an empty chamber (complete agreement on my part), but what about the position of the safety and hammer?

Of course if the hammer is forward (in contact with the FP/Bolt) then the safety position is already determined.

I'm also making the assumption the dust cover is closed and a loaded mag is inserted.

[markm]

Originally Posted by polymorpheous

Here's an experiment:
Lock your bolt back.
Now, slap the back of your buttstock.
What just happened?

Exactly.

And when Whistle Dick goes to hit the bolt catch and doesn't know the bolt slammed forward when he bounced the gun, it's going to throw him off his game and cornfuse him.

[Scorpion]

Originally Posted by polymorpheous

Here's an experiment:
Lock your bolt back.
Now, slap the back of your buttstock.
What just happened?

This.

Bolt forward, safety engaged until you have acquired target, hammer COCKED, not down.

[kmrtnsn]

Originally Posted by Txs

That's a completely unnecessary step and a potentially dangerous move to require personnel to conduct on a routine basis.

In addition, with this system anytime your personnel have to chamber a round in the field (which should occur before a target is even presented) they're immediately holding a hot/safety off weapon - and quite often they'll be running as this occurs.

The bottom line is that dropping the hammer on an empty chamber creates much more danger than it's intended to alleviate.

I've been an instructor for a few decades. The universally accepted SOP for AR/M16 'routine carry' condition is chamber empty, selector on safe, dust cover closed, loaded magazine inserted.

The only time that safety should come off is when swept to the FIRE position as the gun is brought up on an identified target.

It is done this way for a reason. To create the same singular act to place the weapon in a fire condition as the other cruiser long gun, the 870. On the 870 in cruiser carry condition working the action moves the weapon to a fire condition as the safety selector is also off. If the threat situation de-escalates the officer can place the weapon on safe, same as the AR.

[HeavyDuty]

Originally Posted by Txs

That's a completely unnecessary step and a potentially dangerous move to require personnel to conduct on a routine basis.

In addition, with this system anytime your personnel have to chamber a round in the field (which should occur before a target is even presented) they're immediately holding a hot/safety off weapon - and quite often they'll be running as this occurs.

The bottom line is that dropping the hammer on an empty chamber creates much more danger than it's intended to alleviate.

I've been an instructor for a few decades. The universally accepted SOP for AR/M16 'routine carry' condition is chamber empty, selector on safe, dust cover closed, loaded magazine inserted.

The only time that safety should come off is when swept to the FIRE position as the gun is brought up on an identified target.

This is the way I learned to use an AR back in 1980 and I'm still doing it. The weapon is only off safe when it is on target unless I'm performing maintenance - chamber empty, cocked and on safe even in storage.

[6933]

Originally Posted by HeavyDuty

weapon is only off safe when it is on target unless I'm performing maintenance

If I'm coming from the low ready, the selector is flippped as I bring the rifle up. Not on target yet, but orienting.

[Redhat]

Originally Posted by BigLarge

I noticed several officer's I worked with have the carrier locked back with the bolt catch, ready to go in their cases/gun racks. I asked them why they did this, which they explained "would make the weapon faster to charge" when they deployed them.

First time I've ever seen anyone do this. Thoughts?

IMO, not optimum. As others have noted, a bump can cause the bolt to close by itself.

If they think it is faster, have they tested it on the timer? Would they carry a pump shotgun in the same manner?

[Txs]

Originally Posted by kmrtnsn

It is done this way for a reason. To create the same singular act to place the weapon in a fire condition as the other cruiser long gun, the 870. On the 870 in cruiser carry condition working the action moves the weapon to a fire condition as the safety selector is also off. If the threat situation de-escalates the officer can place the weapon on safe, same as the AR.

Same as with an AR or M16, safety selector on FIRE as a shotgun's routine carry condition actually creates a much more dangerous situation than it alleviates.

Any agency which mandates this is setting both themselves and their personnel up for serious problems.

[kmrtnsn]

Originally Posted by Txs

Same as with an AR or M16, safety selector on FIRE as a shotgun's routine carry condition actually creates a much more dangerous situation than it alleviates.

Any agency which mandates this is setting both themselves and their personnel up for serious problems.

Just how much experience do you have carrying a weapon in a cruiser rack on patrol and employing said weapon? I respectfully suggest that you are far outside your lane.