Latest version of JCP: Modular Handgun System

[jmart]

I predict a gun will win the contract. The fans of the other gun will claim that there was massive corruption. The fans of the other gun will "know a guy" involved that says the other gun "really" won. Within 2 years everybody will hate the gun that won.

Can I call you next time I play the lottery? I want you as my number picker.

[olds442tyguy]

I find it really interesting that they list the same height between compact and full size models. That makes me think they want a compact model with a shorter slide but a full size grip. I think that makes sense too, with magazine interchangeability and all. (Thunk Government and Commander).

Glock needs to add a manual frame safety, threaded barrel, and interchangeable back strap to the G21SF, as well as offer a model with a 4" barrel but a full size grip. They probably have the best cost to quality ratio. The only JCP entrants cheaper than the Glock were the XD and the Taurus OSS AFAIK.


To be honest, I don't think HK will win it. The HK45 is waaaaay to expensive for a general issue handgun. I'm not saying they're over priced, I'm just saying it's cost will be a very big negative for a general issue sidearm. (P226 versus the M9 for example).

Personally I hope the winner is a US manufacturer. And not a foreign mfg that's assembled in the US, an honest to goodness US mfg.

Smith and Wesson fan huh?

[jmart]

I find it really interesting that they list the same height between compact and full size models. That makes me think they want a compact model with a shorter slide but a full size grip. I think that makes sense too, with magazine interchangeability and all. (Thunk Government and Commander).

Glock needs to add a manual frame safety, threaded barrel, and interchangeable back strap to the G21SF, as well as offer a model with a 4" barrel but a full size grip. They probably have the best cost to quality ratio. The only JCP entrants cheaper than the Glock were the XD and the Taurus OSS AFAIK.


To be honest, I don't think HK will win it. The HK45 is waaaaay to expensive for a general issue handgun. I'm not saying they're over priced, I'm just saying it's cost will be a very big negative for a general issue sidearm. (P226 versus the M9 for example).



Smith and Wesson fan huh?

Not necessarily. Although that would be a likely contender. I just don't like the idea of the US buying sidearms from foreign manufacturers. We don't buy ships, subs, planes from foreigners, why should we buy arms? I've got to think between Colt (and Kimber and Springfield) and S&W and Ruger, someone can make decent sidearm that meets specs. Hell, just buy more 1911's. It worked for several wars before, not sure why it can't still work.

[sigmundsauer]

I find it really interesting that they list the same height between compact and full size models. That makes me think they want a compact model with a shorter slide but a full size grip. I think that makes sense too, with magazine interchangeability and all. (Thunk Government and Commander).

Glock needs to add a manual frame safety, threaded barrel, and interchangeable back strap to the G21SF, as well as offer a model with a 4" barrel but a full size grip. They probably have the best cost to quality ratio. The only JCP entrants cheaper than the Glock were the XD and the Taurus OSS AFAIK.


To be honest, I don't think HK will win it. The HK45 is waaaaay to expensive for a general issue handgun. I'm not saying they're over priced, I'm just saying it's cost will be a very big negative for a general issue sidearm. (P226 versus the M9 for example).



Smith and Wesson fan huh?

I agree that HK won't win. Excellent pistol, superior in fact, but the are plenty of lesser pistols that will ultimately meet the minimum requirements at a far lower tariff. Darn shame really.

I disagree on the compact specifications. Having carried concealed for my entire adult life and working professionally for the organizations that do most of the concealed carrying in the Army, a compact butt makes all the difference in the world. A shortened slide with a 5.8" grip is going to be a pain in the butt [multiple puns intended]. The ability to accept the longer, higher capacity mags has far more utility IMO.

Tim

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I think hk will have a shot. This is clearly why they set up the factory with Wilcox. And wilcox and hk have a much better relationship with the military than Springfield, s&w or glock.

[ToddG]

Compact size. While the spec says it can have a grip as long as the full size gun, that doesn't mean a shorter grip couldn't be considered "better."

H&K and price. MHS will not be judged/decided the same way M9/M11 were. Those earlier procurements were of the "cheapest of whatever passes the test" method. A new service handgun will be judged based on "best value," meaning that if the H&K can perform well enough to justify its (presumed) greater cost, it could still win. Furthermore, it's a mistake to assume that H&K's price to the military will reflect the premium they can demand in the LE and especially commercial markets. Look at the DHS/ICE contract ... SIG's initial year contract price was under $350 (for a pistol with night sights and one magazine), and H&K was only about $40 more as I recall. That was for a max of 65,000 pistols. MHS will easily be ten times that big.

US content. Odds are a contract for service-wide pistol procurement will require manufacturing be performed CONUS, at least after an initial batch. However, the real question remains what % of US content will be required. There are so many confusing laws on the books that in some cases, material made in places like Israel or France and incorporated into a US-manufactured product can be considered "US content."

[olds442tyguy]

Compact size. While the spec says it can have a grip as long as the full size gun, that doesn't mean a shorter grip couldn't be considered "better."

H&K and price. MHS will not be judged/decided the same way M9/M11 were. Those earlier procurements were of the "cheapest of whatever passes the test" method. A new service handgun will be judged based on "best value," meaning that if the H&K can perform well enough to justify its (presumed) greater cost, it could still win. Furthermore, it's a mistake to assume that H&K's price to the military will reflect the premium they can demand in the LE and especially commercial markets. Look at the DHS/ICE contract ... SIG's initial year contract price was under $350 (for a pistol with night sights and one magazine), and H&K was only about $40 more as I recall. That was for a max of 65,000 pistols. MHS will easily be ten times that big.

US content. Odds are a contract for service-wide pistol procurement will require manufacturing be performed CONUS, at least after an initial batch. However, the real question remains what % of US content will be required. There are so many confusing laws on the books that in some cases, material made in places like Israel or France and incorporated into a US-manufactured product can be considered "US content."

HK would offer cheaper pricing for a military contract, but every other contender would as well. During the OHWS trials, yes, HK had it in the bag no matter what the cost. I'm not convinced HK can offer enough to at their cost to take the win with the competition they face now though.

As for the DHS deal, the P2000 and P229 as configured for that contract are only $50 off from each other in MSRP.

[The Dumb Gun Collector]

I don't see why HK can't get the price down now that it will be manufactured in the U.S.?

[variablebinary]

This has HK written all over it.

[ToddG]

I don't see why HK can't get the price down now that it will be manufactured in the U.S.?

Right off the bat, the HK45 is more complicated and expensive to manufacture. If the same company was making both guns in the same building, the hammer-fired HK would be more costly to produce.

Next, there's a difference between:

1. Making some major components & assembling in the U.S. but buying many small parts from Germany; vice
2. Building almost every single part in the U.S.

$20 in cost here, $20 in expenses there ... it adds up to a higher price no matter how low you're willing to cut your margins.