AK optics quick detach or Ultimak set-up

[vaglocker]

The more I think about it the more I think that having a quick detach (low as possible) side rail mount for a RDS on an AK would be a better solution than the ultimak gas tube mount. In theory I dig the Ultimak cowitness, but for me the AK sights are hard enough to pick up much less pick up through a 20mm tube that is mounted out on the gas tube. Not to mention potential heat issues. I know that Aimpoints have been standing up to the heat, but it still seems like a lot to ask of any RDS and could eventually be a source of failure even for an Aimpoint. With the side mount if my optic goes down I just use the red dot as a ghost ring and then ditch it when I can. The side rail mounts are pretty easy to get off quickly, more quickly than say a super tight Larue mount on an ultimak which may be like 500 degrees at the time.

Anybody else come to this conclusion or have any thoughts?

[Business_Casual]

Yes, but the problems are:

1) No existing mount is low enough to co-witness
2) No existing mount, in my experience and observation, remains locked very long

The Ultimak is basically an admission that the side mount blows goats on a hillside. I can't say if or why it works on a Dragunov but I've seen enough fail on AKMs in classes to think they don't work well enough.

I'm sure the one guy who runs one will tell me how wrong I am shortly and that his side-mount is the bee's knees.

M_P

[Templar]

Originally Posted by modern_pirate

Yes, but the problems are:

1) No existing mount is low enough to co-witness
2) No existing mount, in my experience and observation, remains locked very long

The Ultimak is basically an admission that the side mount blows goats on a hillside. I can't say if or why it works on a Dragunov but I've seen enough fail on AKMs in classes to think they don't work well enough.

I'm sure the one guy who runs one will tell me how wrong I am shortly and that his side-mount is the bee's knees.

M_P

What M_P said.

The Ultimak/Aimpoint system just spanks the hell out of the side rail system, period.

[SykoFreak]

This optics side mount is low enough to cowitness with a Comp M2/M3.

It's not quite ready yet because Kalinka is making some external changes to make it drop-in compatible with the Comp M2/M3.

I can't comment on the robustness of the side mount system itself.

Not related to the AK side mount, there is also the Texas Weapon Systems beryl-style rail which supposedly will cowitness with a T1/H1 and comes with a rear peep sight. But I have not seen pictures of a cowitness sight picture.

[bluedog]

Originally Posted by SykoFreak

Not related to the AK side mount, there is also the Texas Weapon Systems beryl-style rail which supposedly will cowitness with a T1/H1 and comes with a rear peep sight. But I have not seen pictures of a cowitness sight picture.

If I began burning Aimpoints up left and right on the Ultimak, the Beryl-style rail would be an alternative I'd take into consideration. There are a couple of thoughts I have at the moment. One: I like the front-heavy balance of the Aimpoint/Ultimak set up, as it seems to help with muzzle rise, giving more control especially with fast doubles. Two: The rear mount of the Beryl-style rail moves the cheek weld back at least 1". Although that seems small, with a Non-Nato length stock that 1" is intruding on a pretty tight space. That space I feel, contributes to a low and forward position that aids in control. Still, I'd like to give that rail a try one of these days.

[m4fun]

I do an Ultimak H1 on a SLR106 - no problems - I do an old Ultimak M2 on an a 7.62x39 AK with no scope rail. No problems there either, but I put more rounds throught the SLR. I really like them, but that Optics Kalinka 30mm side rale mount does look like the bees knees as far as mounting an M2/M3 Aimpoint. Wow.

[edwin907]

I'm plenty happy with my non-cowitnessing modded BP02 mount.
If you properly adjust the side mount, retaining zero is no problem.
I've experimented with rear sights, and have ended up with a RPK style adjustable.

I've got a T-1, it's currently mounted on my M92 Krink, where it outperforms the bigger Aimpoints.
But on a full size AK, I just prefer the bigger Aimpoint over the receiver. I shoot better and faster with it. That's why I use it. I didn't have a problem finding a buyer for the Utimak gas rail.
If they come out with a side rail that offers cowitnessing that works, I'll probably get it.

[JPB]

How about the LaRue iron dot rear sight set up? Seems hard to beat.

[oef24]

From what I have heard from a few guys that run their AK's pretty hard, if you mount an Aimpoint Micro to an A.R.M.S. #31 on an Ultimak, it will co-witness and provide quick detach. This setup has been run pretty hard and has held up. As with everything, everything can and will fail. The Aimpoint can fail, the mount can fail and worse yet, the rifle can fail.
I personally am not a fan of the side mount because of the cheek weld issue, no true co-witness and if you have to remove the top cover for whatever reason, the optic usually has to come off even if the optic has not failed.
I hope this helps and good luck with your decision.

O

[Iraq Ninja]

I have been trying out the Dog Leg rail from Texas Weapon Systems and really like it. Very well made and pops up quickly. It will not work on the Soviet style folding stocks.

It also allows you to use a rear BUIS.

http://www.texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html

[vaglocker]

Originally Posted by edwin907

I'm plenty happy with my non-cowitnessing modded BP02 mount.

What did you modify?

[edwin907]

Originally Posted by vaglocker

What did you modify?

The rail is shortened on the mount and attached betwen the "shoulders" on each side of the mount. This lowers and centers the Aimpoint. It's very comfortable to shoot, the cheekweld is nice, and you can engage targets very rapidly.
No co-witness, but the rail detaches very easily, and I have another rail setup for use with the IWAL2 IR laser for a helmet mounted PVS-14.

[vaglocker]

Originally Posted by edwin907

The rail is shortened on the mount and attached betwen the "shoulders" on each side of the mount. This lowers and centers the Aimpoint. It's very comfortable to shoot, the cheekweld is nice, and you can engage targets very rapidly.
No co-witness, but the rail detaches very easily, and I have another rail setup for use with the IWAL2 IR laser for a helmet mounted PVS-14.

Nice. Co-witness is not that important to me with a set up like that if it is rugged, holds zero, and can be removed quickly. Care to post how you performed the mod?

[edwin907]

Originally Posted by vaglocker

Nice. Co-witness is not that important to me with a set up like that if it is rugged, holds zero, and can be removed quickly. Care to post how you performed the mod?

Canonshooter did a fantastic writeup on it.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....highlight=bp02