Comparison Chart of Major AR Brands

[davidz71]

I confess that I have not made it through all 63 pages of this thread but have found the chart and information it contained very interesting. Can anyone steer me in the direction so that I can make a comparison of the LWRC M6A2 I purchased early in 2009? I know the company has changed hands and I am not sure how this would influence the information.

[Sierrahotel83]

The reason that you will not find LWRC in the chart is that the chart is a comparison of M4 style rifles... and LWRC doesn't fit the profile

[davidz71]

Thanks for the clarification. I hadn't thought about that.

[Firegardn77]

Not sure if the answer will be the same as above, but how does Larue stack up on these specs?

[Sierrahotel83]

The first answer to that question is that yes they wouldn't be on the chart as they have no M4 type carbine... and as for the rest I do not see many of the blocks on the chart that the Larue rifle fits... I.E. the barrel, FSB, and others. The only things I see as being applicable on the Chart are barrel extensions and wether they are M4 or M16, the upper being cut with m4 feedramps... the BCG is the other thing that would be applicable... as for either of these I have no knowledge of this... altho I do seem to recall that the BCG didn't meet all the requirements... but do not quote me on this as I have no way to prove this and do not remember where I read it.

[rob_s]

Chart update.

Some have seen my comments around the interweb that I am working on a new version of the Chart. This is true. The new version is, essentially, an online survey that I can send to manufacturers to have them fill in the data. Yes, this opens up the possibility of them lying.

Here's the thing. As someone recently pointed out on TOS, the original Chart started out simply with dealers, salesmen, trainers, and individual owners posting their own findings with rifles they came across. It also involved a lot of my going to gunshows and popping open guns by various manufacturers, and drawing the ire of more than one factory rep at SHOT when I asked to look inside the gun and explained who I was and why I wanted to look.

So what we have, through the use of discussion forums like this, is the ultimate fact-check. Manufacturers will have their chance first to answer the poll. But it is up to us (me, you, everyone else) to fact check it. This not only allows us to keep the Chart correct but also allows us to ferret out the manufacturers that lie, and hopefully acts as an incentive to keep them honest. If they know that this information will be made public and they know that they may get pants'd, it behooves them to make sure they click "top staking" and not "side staking" on the carrier key simply because they think they know what answer we're looking for rather than the truth.

When we start to get more responses I'm going to start a new thread on the new project. PLEASE BEAR WITH ME HERE. As someone on TOS was nice enough to point out I do not do this shit full time, and have a day job, a family, a writing gig, a website, and on occasion I actually like to do fun stuff that doesn't involve guns at all. I want to get this right. It's important to me to make sure I'm talking to the right people at the various companies and giving them their chance to answer the survey. It is critical that we don't wind up with a secretary being tasked with this and not understanding what MPI means so she just checks "no".

If you know of a manufacturer that may want to participate, you can have them email me at rob AT tacticalyellowvisor DOT net. If they expect a reply they need to add that address to their email safe list as well (at least one manufacturer has claimed that I never contacted them and that they tried repeatedly to contact me, yet I have no record of any of this).

No, I will not give you the link to the survey. The link only goes out to people I can verify as being who they say they are. The reasons for this should be obvious, but if it needs further explanation we can discuss it.

Thanks for your patience and support in this. I think the end product will be good if we do this right.

[recon]

Rob-s what you have done with this is chart is so great and the info is outstanding! So from me sir you have my up most thanks! Take all the time you want. We will wait. No else in the gun community has done this kind of research anywhere! So from me I thank you! Well done sir!

[rob_s]

I got a PM regarding concerns about the method of fact-checking and manufacturers that will lie, and the ensuing pissing matches that may occur when they are confronted with their lie.

This has been going on with the Chart since day one. This is nothing new, or unique to the survey mode. The Chart has always been pat survey and part fact-check, but now I am formalizing the survey process and starting there. The survey response will be the baseline for fact-checking. While many makers make claims on their websites that change with the tides, the Survey will put a push-pin in things. It's their word, on this date and time, that they meet these specs. There is no going back, there is no "oops our web guy screwed up", none of that. There is lie and there is truth. and I have great confidence that we will find ways to ferret out the lies.

Some items are subjective, and always have been. Locktite vs. staking vs. nothing on the castle nut, side staking vs. top staking vs. what is really "sufficient" on the carrier keys. All of this has also existed since the beginning, and all of it will continue to happen. There is no workaround other than the court of public opinion, and the pictures that you, the end users, post.

[jklaughrey]

Your simply...awesome brother. Many AR consumers have you to thank for not buying junk from the Fudd's.

[Kentucky Cop]

Sounds great Rob!!! As always, thanks you for being proactive on this chart. I assume that you will be sending the email out to all of the major rifle manufactures. Will you also being hitting up the Tier 2 guys to see if anything has changed since the first chart?

Curious and excited. Good luck my friend..

As always, let us know if we can do anything to assist you.

KC