The Official Why My DPMS, Del-Ton, Oly Arms, Etc. Is Better Than Anything Else Thread

[jklaughrey]

The problem you have which was pointed out by Grant is your intent and delivery of the message was flawed.

If you quit talking out your ASS...you won't be served fresh CROW!

Justifying a purchase with the intent to rationalize a sub par purchase because you feel your rifle is as good as the other guys is almost comedy. No one here said S&W was a shit rifle, just that in comparison you can get a lot more mileage under "real" use from a better manufacturer. Grant was correct though, "professionals" are dependent upon a weapon that will perform under arduous conditions. I average 6-8k per year on my duty rifles. Thank God parts are readily available locally and online for me to maintain a working gun.

Enjoy your purchase, just don't assume that this board is for the weekend ninja master. It isn't, if you wanted pixie dust and ****ing unicorns to praise your purchase you chose the wrong site.

[C4IGrant]

I initially posted in this thread, because I honestly thought it was going to be one of those "Fun": "mine is better than yours" threads. And the fact that I saw it go 40+ pages and get totally off track; including the moderator telling people to get back on track. So I thought I would throw a nice light hearted post of why I liked the M&P that I just bought.

Well; I now know why this thread went 40+ pages and have totally gone off track. While there is a lot of good information being provided; there is also a lot of closed minded and rationalized opinions. I hope to be able to discuss different topics with some of you. There are definitely some really knowledgeable individuals here. But this thread, and many of the comments, are totally wasting my time. Sorry, but I need to move on. Some can believe that I'm bailing on the argument, but I'm not. Until some individuals realize that not everybody has the same needs, environments, threats, skill levels, etc... there can never be an honest and open discussion. Did I ever say that an AR couldn't be the better defense choice for someone? Nope, never said that. But for me, it's not the most practical. But some people think everyone else revolves around their world. Sorry; you're wrong. We don't. And I never once said that it was a waste for anyone to purchase a $1000, $1500, $2000 AR. Matter of fact; I mentioned where it would be quite realistic and practical for a person to need/want one; based on certain uses. But again; there are some who believe that because they bought a particular AR, then all others need to live at their requirements and have that version of AR.

Sorry; but this is a total waste of my time. You all have a great day. Shoot often and shoot safe.

I think you will find many posters (that really do know what they are talking about) have the same feeling as you (that they wasted their time).

Opinions. They are like aholes and everyone has one. What is important to realize is that not everyones opinion is of value.

This forum is geared towards folks that carry a weapon for their job and DO plan on using one to defend themselves. Because of this, reliability and quality are the most important things. You might want to try out some other forums on the net (as they are much more geared towards "dirt shooting" and plinking).


C4

[120mm]

I initially posted in this thread, because I honestly thought it was going to be one of those "Fun": "mine is better than yours" threads. And the fact that I saw it go 40+ pages and get totally off track; including the moderator telling people to get back on track. So I thought I would throw a nice light hearted post of why I liked the M&P that I just bought.

Well; I now know why this thread went 40+ pages and have totally gone off track. While there is a lot of good information being provided; there is also a lot of closed minded and rationalized opinions. I hope to be able to discuss different topics with some of you. There are definitely some really knowledgeable individuals here. But this thread, and many of the comments, are totally wasting my time. Sorry, but I need to move on. Some can believe that I'm bailing on the argument, but I'm not. Until some individuals realize that not everybody has the same needs, environments, threats, skill levels, etc... there can never be an honest and open discussion. Did I ever say that an AR couldn't be the better defense choice for someone? Nope, never said that. But for me, it's not the most practical. But some people think everyone else revolves around their world. Sorry; you're wrong. We don't. And I never once said that it was a waste for anyone to purchase a $1000, $1500, $2000 AR. Matter of fact; I mentioned where it would be quite realistic and practical for a person to need/want one; based on certain uses. But again; there are some who believe that because they bought a particular AR, then all others need to live at their requirements and have that version of AR. Oh, and by the way, I NEVER, EVER, EVER rely on a gun to "Protect my life". The gun is a "TOOL". I rely on ME to protect MY LIFE!!!

Sorry; but this is a total waste of my time. You all have a great day. Shoot often and shoot safe.

I hope you know I am sobbing inconsolably, as I do not think the forum can survive your departure.

Sorry we couldn't cater to your every wish and whim. We have failed....

[tgace]

If you are betting your life on anything (rope, protective equipment, gun, etc) you SHOULD want the BEST that money can buy.

My life is worth more than a low quality weapon. YMMV.


C4

once upon a time I was a rock climber. Talk about gear your life depended on. Even then I didn't buy "the best that money could buy". I bought "the best I COULD AFFORD". Thats not to say that I used carabiners I purchased at Harbor Freight, but I didn't buy top of the line either. When it comes to a solid, dependible, weapon that can do a fine job as a home defense weapon many of these "lower tier" guns will work just fine. Saying that you (once again NOT TALKING ABOUT a soldier or an armed professional) are risking your life because you bought a RR is BS.

IMHO.

[C4IGrant]

once upon a time I was a rock climber. Talk about gear your life depended on. Even then I didn't buy "the best that money could buy". I bought "the best I COULD AFFORD". Thats not to say that I used carabiners I purchased at Harbor Freight, but I didn't buy top of the line either. When it comes to a solid, dependible, weapon that can do a fine job as a home defense weapon many of these "lower tier" guns will work just fine. Saying that you (once again NOT TALKING ABOUT a soldier or an armed professional) are risking your life because you bought a RR is BS.

IMHO.

There are several top quality AR's and the difference seperating them from a lower quality AR is generally $50-$100 dollars.

So if a better rope or carabiner was a $3-5 dollars more, wouldn't you spend the little extra? I know I would.

Odds. That is what we are talking about here. The better quality AR IS going to be more reliable. So again, are you willing to play the odds and bet your life on a gun that isn't built properly? Again, I am not as my life is worth more than that. Your life might not be and that is your decision.

Same goes with training. I am assuming that you would use a firearm to defend yourself with. Ever taken a training class? How bout a home defense class? My life is worth a lot so I take as much training as possible so that I can survive the fight.

Just sayin...


C4

[jklaughrey]

"Serving fresh crow daily since 2006"...Over 15,000 served!

I didn't include your time on TOS.

[theblackknight]

wow, this tread is still happening.

[C4IGrant]

"Serving fresh crow daily since 2006"...Over 15,000 served!

I didn't include your time on TOS.

LOL, true.

I do try and be patient and define my background and where I am coming from (as I do this chit for a living), but I sometimes feel like I am talking to myself.

Its kind of like driving a car and then trying to tell the auto mechanic that he doesn't know WTF he is talking about (as you know more about how the car operates because it is yours and you drive it).

Stange phenomenon.


Oh well, back to building guns....



C4

[GTF425]

As the owner of an HK416, I enjoy taking my Bushmaster XM15 to the range and plinking with it. I've never had a malfunction of any kind and for what I do with it I have no complaints. After almost 8,000 rounds this past year, the only thing I've changed is the pistol grip. Nothing has broken and I've never so much as gotten a hiccup out of it.

Is it as solid as my HK? Of course not. Would I ever "bet my life on it"? Not for home defense. I have my P226 for that. But for the range shooter who wants to enjoy themself, a lot of the cheaper AR's out there are a good buy. Odds are that 99% of gun owners will never use one in self defense in their home, so setting that fantasy aside, unless you're a hardcore shooter who actively participates in competition/classes or your job requires you to use a personal rifle, I don't see how there's a problem with buying a "cheap" AR.

Does it fire? Roger. Does it cycle? Yup. If we do our part as the operator of the weapon, ie cleaning it and replacing worn parts as they need it, then you'll never have an issue.

Just my $.02.

[THCDDM4]

once upon a time I was a rock climber. Talk about gear your life depended on. Even then I didn't buy "the best that money could buy". I bought "the best I COULD AFFORD". Thats not to say that I used carabiners I purchased at Harbor Freight, but I didn't buy top of the line either. When it comes to a solid, dependible, weapon that can do a fine job as a home defense weapon many of these "lower tier" guns will work just fine. Saying that you (once again NOT TALKING ABOUT a soldier or an armed professional) are risking your life because you bought a RR is BS.

IMHO.

You weirdos with your "not a cop or soldier; so I don't need a weapon that has a highger chance of performing and saving my life if I should need it to" BS; are just effing nuts to me.

I don't understand this logic whatsoever? Only Soldiers and Police need to have proper tools for defending lives? Thats just twilight zone crazy to me.

Lets look at some details here:

1) A wepaon built to or superseding the TDP has alower % chance of failure.

2) A weapon not built to and not superseding the TDP has a higher % chance of failure.

My life, my wifes life, my family's lives, and my confidence in defending those lives is VERY important, and WORTH more than all the gold in the world to me.

Why would I buy a weapon that is known to have a higher % chance at failure, all that means is that if I do get into the wrong scenario; I have a higher % chance of not getting out alive; and where is the logic in that?

It makes absolutely no sense.

Conforming to the logic that you shouldn't worry about your life more when you use tools that have a higher % chance at failure VS. using tools with a lower % chance failure is effing absurd; regardless of LE/MIl/Civilian/whatever.

I don't care if you are LEO, MIL, Civvy, a one eyed one horned flying purple people eater; a better gun that is built to be more reliable is just that; A BETTER GUN THAT IS BUILT BETTER TO BE MORE RELIABLE. Especially since you can get them for the same cost, a bit more, and sometimes a bit less than the lower tier rifles that are known to be inferior; if you are deal/shopping savy and aren't in a hurry to just get a rifle.

WHen it comes down to it, I don't think (And I pray I don't) I will ever HAVE to use any weapon for SD or HD; but knowing it is a possibility, I'm gonna make sure I am 100% ready for that situation, with the proper tools. Knowing I have a proper built rifle that exceeds the TDP and has the best % chance of saving my/family's lives; well thats a gravy train with biscuit wheels for me. Oh and seeing as how I got it for about the same price as most lower tier rifles (Research and patience!); thats just the bees knees.

This separation in the importance of lives/tools of Civilians VS. Mil/LEO is ludicrous.

If your life isn't worth the extra $$$ or patience (OR just doing the research and spending the same or less sometimes);then what is???!!!?!?!?!?

Lets put it into other words.

You can buy (1) lotto ticket of (3) different kinds:

Lotto Ticket #1) Has a 75% chance of winning cost $5

Ticket #2) has a 30% chance of winning; cost $2.50

Ticket #3) has a 95% chance of winning; cost $6.50

I would take ticket #3 everytime; knowing I have abetter chance of winning. YMMV!