Robinson Arms Sues Remington, Bushmaster, RRA, and Magpul

[variablebinary]

did not say you did

Exactly. SHOT. Try and take the wind out of someone elses sails. Rain on their parade. Use that as leverage.

That sounds like smart business to be honest.

[chadbag]

That sounds like smart business to be honest.

Depends on what your goal is. And how much long term enmity you want once the issue is solved.

[KellyTTE]

I made a minor edit and would have to agree. RobArms could be 100% in the right and still lose quite handily. Then again, they could be completely wrong, and some flawed interpretation by a judge could make them a winner because the opposing attorney failed to bring it to his honor's attention properly.

Fair enough and quite true.

Any chance that RobArms will pursue royalities vs. a design change?? Get a piece of every gun sold?

That would be the smart route. I suspect that with a few changes, make it wrap around, more of a lever, whatforetc, that Freedom group could make this a very Pyrrhic victory for RobArms. But having read some of the XCR forums and the posts from the RobArms staff, there may be a high level of mechanical skill, but the market penetration, after purchase support and general reputation leaves a lot to be desired on RobArms part.

Personally, I think that RobArms is miffed that they built a better mouse trap and no one beat a path to their door. Then along comes Magpul, who proceeds to build a terrifically better mousetrap (even with the long intro delay) and RobArms gets teh butthertz.

But that's just my .02 kopeks.

[supersix4]

That sounds like smart business to be honest.

you aren't exactly objective in this matter...

[justin_247]

So my patent law knowledge is a bit rusty but doesn't it matter that this rifle was designed prior to the issuance of the patent?

And why isnt Knights Armament included in this?

This is going to be the key issue in court, I believe. The Robinson Arms patent supposedly being infringed upon was issued in Oct 09, long after the Magpul and RRA weapons had been developed. Robinson Arms will most likely have to prove that Magpul and RRA stole the design in one way or another while it was in development...

Personally, I don't think this is going to go anywhere.

[chadbag]

This is going to be the key issue in court, I believe. The Robinson Arms patent supposedly being infringed upon was issued in Oct 09, long after the Magpul and RRA weapons had been developed. Robinson Arms will most likely have to prove that Magpul and RRA stole the design in one way or another while it was in development...

Personally, I don't think this is going to go anywhere.

Uhh, no. I am not a lawyer nor a patent attorney or anything.

However, when the ACR or RRA guns came out is irrelevant as long as the patent was researched and applied for before that time. The patent was filed like in 2002 or something and they own the prior art that has come out (their 1990s M96).

Magpul did not have to steal anything to be infringing. They could have come up with the same idea totally on their own, separately. The first guy who gets the patent basically wins.

Magpul/Remington etc will have to prove that Robinson Arms did not create the technology by showing prior art that existed before the RA examples which go back to the 1990s. If the patent is found to be infringed on. That has to happen first.

The patent may have been issued in Oct 2009 but that is not the starting gate for when it can be used in terms of when stuff has to have been developed etc

[rob_s]

The quote is Commodore Perry from the Battle of Lake Erie and what he actually said was...

"We have met the enemy and they are ours."

Pogo bro

[Marcus L.]

Magpul did not have to steal anything to be infringing. They could have come up with the same idea totally on their own, separately. The first guy who gets the patent basically wins.

....only that the bolt release is almost an exact copy of the XCR? Patents take years to be finalized from the date of filing. Even if RA was not the first to come up with these designs, they put forth the time and money to have the designs patented. However, at least in the case of the bolt release RA build that design on the M96 long before the Masada was even a glimmer in someones brain. From my understanding, a patent filed in 2002 and isn't finalized until 2009, is backdated to the date of filing. This means that anything made after 2002 is a patent infringment on RA. Magpul could have easily looked up patents pending on the XCR design and decided to go the safe route and avoid this.

These companies will have to prove that the XCR designs that RA patented were actually hardcopied prior to RA's patent filing. Anything short of engineering schematics or a dated autocad and I'm betting Remington will have to change the ACR design a bit or pay royalties to RA to keep the design.

[Nathan_Bell]

The quote is Commodore Perry from the Battle of Lake Erie and what he actually said was...

"We have met the enemy and they are ours."

You have the historic quote, but the one Carlos put up is closer to the one from Pogo, IIRC late '30s early '40s.

[Steve]

Which are what, exactly?

I only ask because over the past year I've been involved in a project that HK sees as promoting its guns primarily towards the civilian market, as well as watching the huge battles they've been fighting with the German government to provide a civilian version of their much-coveted 416 rifles. I also consider the president of HK-USA a personal friend of many years and know for a fact that he is very much a proponent of Americans' Second Amendment rights.

Todd last year at shot they HK turned down a large order from a local SRT team because among all there order they requested a variant of one of the guns that sounded to much like it was for civilian use the spent there money elsewere

I called them with failures of several new gen II mags out of the wrapper they told me impossible and i was doing something wrong after a lot of calls i shit i got it handled