BCM vs. Sons of Liberty Gunworks

[C4IGrant]

The size of a gas port is neither a material or a method.

Incorrect, it is a method. In order to come to a GP size, you are going to look at cyclic rate, check functionality with a bunch of ammo, etc.

This is only a point of contention because BCM doesn't do it (along with having a bad rep over not answering the phones, which might not even be true anymore, but is common sense and anyone who worked retail knows it). If this discussion was about almost any other company not answering phones or withholding some very basic and straightforward information, Grant wouldn't be here defending it. Just calling a spade a spade...

Most all companies don't share this info. Yes, the info about BCM not answering their phone is old news).
Answering the phone is a double edged sword for a company. It ties up employees for most of the day and the people you have doing it, better be knowledgeable on all aspects of your companies products. These people have to be grown over YEARS before they are worth anything. This costs a lot of money. Besides that, have you ever heard some of the moronic convo's that happen at a gun store?? Those same people call companies with some of the dumbest questions imaginable. So personally, I don't blame companies for not answering their phone (no matter who it is).


C4



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[dobe]

In correct, it is a method. In order to come to a GP size, you are going to look at cyclic rate, check functionality with a bunch of ammo, etc.



Most all companies don't share this info. Yes, the info about BCM not answering their phone is old news).
Answering the phone is a double edged sword for a company. It ties up employees for most of the day and the people you have doing it, better be knowledgeable on all aspects of your companies products. These people have to be grown over YEARS before they are worth anything. This costs a lot of money. Besides that, have you ever heard some of the moronic convo's that happen at a gun store?? Those same people call companies with some of the dumbest questions imaginable. So personally, I don't blame companies for not answering their phone (no matter who it is).


C4



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Yea, I have heard some of these questions, but yet allow me to take you down a path leading to two major firearms manufacturers. One is the larger FN, and the other is HK. By now, I assume you realize that I am adept at research.
I was having a conversation with someone about why the SCAR 16s and 17s have different number of bolt lugs. One call to FN Columbia yielded the answer. Now, because social media is what it is, and a company's reputation can flourish or tarnish based upon a few post, what do you think that did for FN? My conversation about the difference in the lugs was on the FN forum. We were impressed they had taken the time to help.

A few days ago several of us on HKPro were wondering about an orifice in the frame of a P30. This question was brought to us by someone new to the HK line. I have 6 P30s, and had never given the orifice a second thought. I decided to call HK USA, and inquire. I was put directly in touch with an engineer. He informed me that he was aware of the opening, but not the design's origin. He then told me that he would call Germany for me, as soon as the factory returned from their August vacation. HK stock went up in my mind.

Never tell me personal contact with a customer is bad business. It isn't.


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[NWcityguy2]

Now you're just playing a word game. The making of it is a method, and the size of it after it is done is a specification, by the very definitions of the words.

[C4IGrant]

Yea, I have heard some of these questions, but yet allow me to take you down a path leading to two major firearms manufacturers. One is the larger FN, and the other is HK. By now, I assume you realize that I am adept at research.
I was having a conversation with someone about why the SCAR 16s and 17s have different number of bolt lugs. One call to FN Columbia yielded the answer. Now, because social media is what it is, and a company's reputation can flourish or tarnish based upon a few post, what do you think that did for FN? My conversation about the difference in the lugs was on the FN forum. We were impressed they had taken the time to help.

A few days ago several of us on HKPro were wondering about an orifice in the frame of a P30. This question was brought to us by someone new to the HK line. I have 6 P30s, and had never given the orifice a second thought. I decided to call HK USA, and inquire. I was put directly in touch with an engineer. He informed me that he was aware of the opening, but not the design's origin. He then told me that he would call Germany for me, as soon as the factory returned from their August vacation. HK stock went up in my mind.

Never tell me personal contact with a customer is bad business. It isn't.


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None of those questions are moronic or invasive to a companies proprietary info. I am all in favor of companies answering the phone. I also understand why some limit it too. Companies can also change. HK (for instance) didn't always have the "friendly and helpful" CS that they do now. ;-)


C4


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[C4IGrant]

Now you're just playing a word game. The making of it is a method, and the size of it after it is done is a specification, by the very definitions of the words.

It takes one to know one. Your playing the word game, I'm just beating you at it.

C4


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[Shootah 556]

I have a bcm 16" LW middy build going on right now all I need to finish it is a bcg I'm going with SOLGW 150$ they use sprinco springs aswell & they offer a M4C discount

[Omega9]

I guess I am in the minority or just privileged. I placed an order with BCM for an upper and a few other things a couple of years back. The day after I placed my order a lady called me about some discrepancy with my order (I don't recall what but it wasn't CC info) and Left me a message to call her back. When I did, the same lady that left me the message answered the phone so I am assuming it was her direct line. When I told her my name she knew exactly what my order was and what the issue was. They may not answer the phone for everyday chit chat but that seemed like very good customer service to me.

[JC5188]

Yea, I have heard some of these questions, but yet allow me to take you down a path leading to two major firearms manufacturers. One is the larger FN, and the other is HK. By now, I assume you realize that I am adept at research.
I was having a conversation with someone about why the SCAR 16s and 17s have different number of bolt lugs. One call to FN Columbia yielded the answer. Now, because social media is what it is, and a company's reputation can flourish or tarnish based upon a few post, what do you think that did for FN? My conversation about the difference in the lugs was on the FN forum. We were impressed they had taken the time to help.

A few days ago several of us on HKPro were wondering about an orifice in the frame of a P30. This question was brought to us by someone new to the HK line. I have 6 P30s, and had never given the orifice a second thought. I decided to call HK USA, and inquire. I was put directly in touch with an engineer. He informed me that he was aware of the opening, but not the design's origin. He then told me that he would call Germany for me, as soon as the factory returned from their August vacation. HK stock went up in my mind.

Never tell me personal contact with a customer is bad business. It isn't.


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Why does it have to be a phone convo? Why not email? I've never felt compelled to call a gun manufacturer...yet I've emailed numerous. It allows the manuf to answer at their leisure, so that competent personnel can be used...instead of training someone to parrot in a csr role. It also gives both parties a record of what was stated.


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[dobe]

Why does it have to be a phone convo? Why not email? I've never felt compelled to call a gun manufacturer...yet I've emailed numerous. It allows the manuf to answer at their leisure, so that competent personnel can be used...instead of training someone to parrot in a csr role. It also gives both parties a record of what was stated.


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Here's why, in a conversation, be it oral or written, one thought evokes another. An answer will spawn a question. With a phone call, these additional questions are answered, because the questions are asked within the same conversation. Sometimes these questions are even answered before asked.

I remember years ago calling Randall Knives, and Gary Randall answered the phone. I had questions about how secure their stag handles were with using just epoxy. Nevertheless, I was awe struck that Gary would be answering the phone. He satisfied my questions, and many others that came afterwards during that brief call. I had my first stag handle Randall soon after. You see, a knowledgeable person on the phone doesn't try to sell. They are there to educate, and help guide the customer to products that are beneficial to them. It gives the customer a feeling of trust and puts them at ease. This is very important for the new kid on the block, but don't discount the value even for the well established companies.

You want to go one step further, invite people to your facility. Show the human side of your company. Leave your customer base richer when they leave than when they came. Oh wait, SOLGW has done that too.

My concern is that SOLGW and Scionics will not be able to give the personalized service when they get as large as BCM. Never fear, someone else will emerge.


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[JC5188]

Here's why, in a conversation, be it oral or written, one thought evokes another. An answer will spawn a question. With a phone call, these additional questions are answered, because the questions are asked within the same conversation. Sometimes these questions are even answered before asked.

I remember years ago calling Randall Knives, and Gary Randall answered the phone. I had questions about how secure their stag handles were with using just epoxy. Nevertheless, I was awe struck that Gary would be answering the phone. He satisfied my questions, and many others that came afterwards during that brief call. I had my first stag handle Randall soon after. You see, a knowledgeable person on the phone doesn't try to sell. They are there to educate, and help guide the customer to products that are beneficial to them. It gives the customer a feeling of trust and puts them at ease. This is very important for the new kid on the block, but don't discount the value even for the well established companies.

You want to go one step further, invite people to your facility. Show the human side of your company. Leave your customer base richer when they leave than when they came. Oh wait, SOLGW has done that too.

My concern is that SOLGW and Scionics will not be able to give the personalized service when they get as large as BCM. Never fear, someone else will emerge.


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I get what you are saying, but written conversation is every bit the equal of spoken word. Yes, it may be more cumbersome to carry on a real time conversation, but I'd imagine you are in the minority of AR customers. Or customers in general, regarding a need to have a drawn out discussion about a product.

Maybe if there were fewer people jawing with the gun mechs/engineers, we'd all get our shit sooner.


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