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Thread: which .308/.762 AR and why

  1. #11
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    Surprised nobody's suggested a custom build from GAP... that'd be my first choice in the price range.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    For what use? Battle rifle? Plinker?
    Yeah, really. Do you want a hard use battle rifle, a precision bench rig, or something that performs double duty?

  3. #13
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    I think the LMT is a no-brainer at this point.

    The SR25 magazine IS the new standard. No matter how you slice it, a modified M14 magazine is a compromise at best. And now that SR25 PMags are available, that pretty much seals the deal.

    ETA: the Bushmaster and Rock River guns are not serious fighting guns. The bolt geometry required to make the FAL magazines work results in a weakened bolt that is prone to breakage. I broke two on the Bushmaster BAR-10 I had before I sold it.

    The Noveske is an Armalite, and G3 magazines? The only advantage there is the cost. No BHO with a G3 mag. The KAC's price is just insane, the POFs and DPMSs are junk, and the REPR is over a thousand dollars higher than the LMT - and nearly every one sold around here has had issues.

    The LMT is unproven yet, but considering LMT's reputation and coupled with its adoption by the Brits, I suspect that any zits it might have will be ironed out in very short order.
    Last edited by QuietShootr; 02-20-10 at 12:36.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuietShootr View Post
    And despite how much you AR10 fanbois don't like it, the SR25 magazine IS the new standard.
    The fact of the matter is, there are current models in the "308 AR" family that do not accept the SR25 pattern magazine. Therefore, it can hardly be called a standard "308 AR" magazine.

    No matter how you slice it, a modified M14 magazine is a compromise at best. And now that SR25 PMags are available, that pretty much seals the deal.
    If you are going to disparage a design, it might be best to keep up with what is going on with the magazine you are disparaging. For at least the last four years, ArmaLite has been using a purpose built magazine, referred to as the GenII, made by Checkmate specifically to their specs, and specifically for their guns.

    It does not use surplus M14 bodies, and has incorporated several changes that precludes it's use in the M14. Including a rib down the spine of the magazine and a bolt hold open feature similar to an M4, but a follower that is complete different from an M14 or a GenI AR10B magazine.

    From the standpoint of your comparison, you would so easily dismiss weapons such as the FAL, M14, G3, or HK417 because they use a proprietary magazine that does not fit an SR-25?

    Vendors were smart to hitch their horse to an unprotected magazine design of an adopted military weapon, no doubt about it. Imitation of a successful design does not ensure success, and it certainly doesn't make it "standard". It does make it a very savvy business move.
    Last edited by SHIVAN; 02-20-10 at 12:41.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHIVAN View Post
    The fact of the matter is, there are current models in the "308 AR" family that do not accept the SR25 pattern magazine. Therefore, it can hardly be called a standard "308 AR" magazine. Accept by those who wish to inflate the importance of their favored platform.



    If you are going to disparage a design, it might be best to keep up with what is going on with the magazine you are disparaging. For at least the last four years, ArmaLite has been using a purpose built magazine, referred to as the GenII, made by Checkmate specifically to their specs, and specifically for their guns.

    It does not use surplus M14 bodies, and has incorporated several changes that precludes it's use in the M14. Including a rib down the spine of the magazine and a bolt hold open feature similar to an M4, but a follower that is complete different from an M14 or a GenI AR10B magazine.

    From the standpoint of your flawed comparison, you would so easily dismiss weapons such as the FAL, M14, G3, or HK417 because they use a proprietary magazine that does not fit an SR-25?

    Vendors were smart to hitch their horse to an unprotected magazine design of an adopted military weapon, no doubt about it. Imitation of a successful design does not ensure success, and it certainly doesn't make it "standard".
    The FAL magazines are fine in a FAL. The FAL's bolt was designed to work with them, and it isn't weakened because of it. The idea to put them in an AR was a decent one back during the ban, because FAL mags were plentiful and cheap, but there's no reason for it now. Same situation with the M14, only the magazines were never cheap. For all the other stuff that is wrong with it, the Garand action is hell for strong.

    The G3 is a good step in the evolution of the 7.62 rifle, but its lack of BHO is a flaw IMO. I actually prefer its action to all the others, given my druthers, but no one is going to build a modern rifle on the MG42-type action, more's the pity. If it HAD a BHO, I'd probably buy another one. There's really nothing wrong with its mags other than they lack a mechanism for actuating a BHO.

    I do NOT know why the 417 would use a proprietary magazine, other than the standard "We're HK, and we hate you" concept. From a civilian point of view, an HK proprietary mag is just about a deal breaker. I like to have literally hundreds of magazines around for any rifle I think of as serious, and I have no doubt HK is going to want $50-$60 apiece for those. Good for HK, bad for the consumer.

  6. #16
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    Just to play along, I went with an Iron Ridge complete lower unit (Armalite) and am currently debating whether to buy an Iron Ridge stripped upper and send it to Gap to be completed or buy a Noveske upper and just slap it on. Going with an 18" barrel which will be perfectly fine at the 600 yard ranges I have access to, but will save a little weight over the 20" and up versions.

    Idea being a precision based rifle that can be used somewhat all around and for hog hunts etc. But in reality, its going to spend 95% of its life punching paper and steel.

    There are tons of great options out there right now though, the .308 platform is really exploding over the past few years and a lot of things have changed even only recently with them.

  7. #17
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    I know you posted about an AR platform 7.62/.308 rifle. But with your budget, I'd submit that you shouldn't rule out and FAL pattern rifle like the DSA SA58. See this article by Larry Vickers.



    Also, see Teach me about the FAL (where photo was posted).

    For your budget, you could get a DSA SA58 carbine, DSA Extreme Duty Scope Mount, optics of your choice, magazines which are fairly cheap when compared to other platforms, and a bunch of ammo and perhaps some money left over for a carbine class.

    For an AR patterend 7.62/.308, the Larue OBR looks like the new front runner.
    Last edited by ballistic; 02-20-10 at 13:16.

  8. #18
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    I've owned a few Fal's

    a FN 50.00 and a 50.41 HBAR years ago kick myself for letting them go too... I may go that route thats why i was asking about the AR-10 platforms... The only thing i see with AR-10 style is there is no real standard they all go by like the AR15/M16....

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by m4forme View Post
    a FN 50.00 and a 50.41 HBAR years ago kick myself for letting them go too... I may go that route thats why i was asking about the AR-10 platforms... The only thing i see with AR-10 style is there is no real standard they all go by like the AR15/M16....
    Then my short list would be the LaRue LT762-16 OBR, Noveske N6 16", and KAC SR25 Carbine.
    Last edited by ballistic; 02-21-10 at 07:41.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by m4forme View Post
    ....there is no real standard they all go by like the AR15/M16....
    That's exactly right, and it really won't matter too much unless you decide to buy an SR-25 AND an ArmaLite.

    At that point, you couldn't double-dip on the mags. Which, let's be honest, isn't likely or uncommon.

    What I mean is that an M&P45 does not take the same mags as a Glock 21 or 1911, yet many of us might own both. Or a Hipower doesn't take G17 mags.

    So really, you need to boil down the features and pricing you like, and jump in.

    I really prefer the features to pricing model that ArmaLite uses. For a few bucks more than the DPMS you can have chromelined bores and chambers or equivalent/better SS barrels and a lifetime warranty.

    If you want a blaster, that you run hard and put away wet, I think the FAL suggestion above may be more in line with your desires, though I know you can get an ArmaLite 16" carbine to run well, I just doubt most 308 ARs will run with an FAL all day long if you backed up a Komatsu 930E of 7.62 NATO and said, "Have at it..." You may find one or 100, but the odds are probably against you in the grand scheme of things.


    Maximum Capacity: 320 tons of ammo


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