HST still the go to for most the 9mm guys?

[Straight Shooter]

You've been shooting HST since the 70's?

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I agree and although 9mm is my go to pistol round, I’ll keep my Glock 21 loaded with +P HST. Just look at it this way, its just more .45 ammo for us

YEP! I keep my G41 loaded with HST or GoldDot..whatever is handy.

[MegademiC]

I agree. All the "advancements in bullet design has made the 9mm the best and negated the .45" is a bunch of crapola. The same advancements apply to the . 45, and you still make a bigger hole. I get it, a pistol round is still just a pistol round. I think it was Elmer Keith who said a .45 "lets more air in and more blood out".

The difference is 45 expanded and penetrated deep enough for a long time. 9mm did not do it reliably until recently, so the advancements helped 9mm more. There was not much to be gained for 45.

They didnt both get better by the same amount, 9mm performance gal with 45 has closed to the point that its statistically irrelevant, and the potential capacity gains and reduced recoil (for one handed shots) offer benefits hat outweight any performance differencecfor MOST people.

If your are a good shooter and limited to 10rds, this may not apply to you.

Maybe i missed it, but i didnt see anyone say 45 is a bad round or wont get the job done.

[Straight Shooter]

The difference is 45 expanded and penetrated deep enough for a long time. 9mm did not do it reliably until recently, so the advancements helped 9mm more. There was not much to be gained for 45.

They didnt both get better by the same amount, 9mm performance gal with 45 has closed to the point that its statistically irrelevant, and the potential capacity gains and reduced recoil (for one handed shots) offer benefits hat outweight any performance differencecfor MOST people.

If your are a good shooter and limited to 10rds, this may not apply to you.

Maybe i missed it, but i didnt see anyone say 45 is a bad round or wont get the job done.

So that I can learn something- let me ask a question:
If youve got a 45ACP 230+P running 950fps with a ME of 461 foot pounds of energy, using a Gold Dot bullet, that penetrates say 15" in ballistic gel.
Then you have a 9mm +P 124gr running 1220 fps with a 400 foot pounds of energy with a Gold Dot bullet, penetrating same gel block 15".
Does, or does it not make a difference as to diameter of the bullet hole..and greater amount of energy on target? If not..why? If the 45 gives a much greater wound channel, how/why would its "stopping power" not be greater? Truly seeking knowledge here..not argument.

[LMT/556]

The wound channels are nearly identical, you don't really step up until rifle velocities where violent fragmentation and temporary stretch cavities cause additional damage. So does that additional 61 ft lbs offset literally twice the round count in a more controllable platform?

[Straight Shooter]

The wound channels are nearly identical, you don't really step up until rifle velocities where violent fragmentation and temporary stretch cavities cause additional damage. So does that additional 61 ft lbs offset literally twice the round count in a more controllable platform?

I can agree of course on the 9mm being more controllable. As for capacity- my G41 holds 13+1, so that isnt an issue for me personally. As for the energy difference, I just flat dont know.
My basic premise is- the .45 AINT DEAD, nor should it ever be. For shooters who can handle it- itll always be an effective round. IF something crazy happened, and all we were left with was hardball ammo, Ill definitely be packing a 45 over a 9mm. Baring that- I switch up between the two and am fine with both.

[w3453l]

The wound channels are nearly identical, you don't really step up until rifle velocities where violent fragmentation and temporary stretch cavities cause additional damage. So does that additional 61 ft lbs offset literally twice the round count in a more controllable platform?

There was a good thread I read a little while back on the subject.

http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/ba...formance-facts

If anyone wants a good read, it's not too long.

[oldtexan]

I believe in both the HST round & the .45ACP that I just got 150 rounds in of 230gr. HST. Could NOT care less about internet lore and/or opinion. Ive seen what it can do...been shooting it since late Seventies, its an awesome round that CAN be shot fast, with practice, and its track record is without question, in my mind. THAT said, I still carry a G19 with either +P HST or GoldDots in 124gr. All this badmouthing the .45 of late is a bunch of BULLSHIT.

HST didn't exist in the '70s; it wasn't introduced by Federal until about 2002. If you think you've been shooting HST since the '70s, then it's likely you are confusing Hydra-Shok, currently also a Federal product line and sometime abbreviated HS, with HST. My notes indicate Hydra-Shok was introduced in about 1977 and that the rights to it were sold to Federal in 1988. Hydra-shok and HST are two very different designs, from different generations. HST was designed specifically to meet FBI standards for penetration and expansion, standards which didn't exist when Hydra-shok was designed.

Here's some very good info and advice on service caliber handgun loads: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....f-Defense-Ammo

[Tokarev]

My notes indicate Hydra-Shok was introduced in about 1977 and that the rights to it were sold to Federal in 1988.

Wasn't Hydra-Shok an outgrowth/product improvement of the PMC Starfire? If memory serves they were invented by the same designer.


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[Straight Shooter]

HST didn't exist in the '70s; it wasn't introduced by Federal until about 2002. If you think you've been shooting HST since the '70s, then it's likely you are confusing Hydra-Shok, currently also a Federal product line and sometime abbreviated HS, with HST. My notes indicate Hydra-Shok was introduced in about 1977 and that the rights to it were sold to Federal in 1988. Hydra-shok and HST are two very different designs, from different generations. HST was designed specifically to meet FBI standards for penetration and expansion, standards which didn't exist when Hydra-shok was designed.

Here's some very good info and advice on service caliber handgun loads: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....f-Defense-Ammo

Brother- DAMN, YALL- I NEVER said Ive been shooting HST since the seventies!!! Some smartass said that after mis-interpreting my post!! HO_LEE COW people...who the hell would think HST has been around that long anyway?! PLEASE..READ BEFORE COMMENTING NEXT TIME.

[Swstock]

Brother- DAMN, YALL- I NEVER said Ive been shooting HST since the seventies!!! Some smartass said that after mis-interpreting my post!! HO_LEE COW people...who the hell would think HST has been around that long anyway?! PLEASE..READ BEFORE COMMENTING NEXT TIME.

Yea but you did say it. Maybe edit it out of that post?