HST still the go to for most the 9mm guys?

[Jeff S.]

Some early G2 was bad, recalled, and tweaked. Of tests on more recent production, do the bad results your seeing come from 1) testers trained and experienced in terminal ballistic testing, 2) using calibrated ballistic gelatin, 3) following established testing protocols, 4) with credible sample sizes of test articles?

+1

Dr Gary Roberts tests a new batch of Speer G2 (compared with 147gr HST and 147gr Bonded Ranger). Great pics and great information. I'd have no problem carrying G2, but $20 a box for HST is hard to beat.


https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....y-load-testing

[MegademiC]

Is +P "necessary" for HST 124gr to perform well?

Define "perform well". If you mean meet the fbi requirements then all I can say is the non +p is not on the list. +p is... I read that as a "yes" to your question.

[Jeff S.]

Define "perform well". If you mean meet the fbi requirements then all I can say is the non +p is not on the list. +p is... I read that as a "yes" to your question.

I don't think the list is merely whether ammunition passes the FBI protocol. People have asked the creator of that list, DocGKR, why the regular pressure 124gr is not on the list (and, likewise, why the 147gr +P is not on the list). His answer is that the 124gr +P performs better than the regular 124gr, whereas the 147gr +P offers "no advantage" to the regular 147gr.


Q: Whats the deal with the HST 147 +p. I have a case of it. I got it for the little edge in velocity. Why is the standard HST 147 better?
A: (DocGSK) Not better, but the +P does not give you anything extra.

DocGSK: "Both the standard pressure 124 gr GD and HST work fine."

DocGSK: "HST 124gr standard pressure works OK (much like standard pressure 124 gr GD), just not quite as good as the +P version. I'd have no worries carrying it if it was all I could get."


https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....old-Dot-vs-HST
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ow-about-124gr
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-vs-147-P-HST)

[MegademiC]

I don't think the list is merely whether ammunition passes the FBI protocol. People have asked the creator of that list, DocGKR, why the regular pressure 124gr is not on the list (and, likewise, why the 147gr +P is not on the list). His answer is that the 124gr +P performs better than the regular 124gr, whereas the 147gr +P offers "no advantage" to the regular 147gr.


Q: Whats the deal with the HST 147 +p. I have a case of it. I got it for the little edge in velocity. Why is the standard HST 147 better?
A: (DocGSK) Not better, but the +P does not give you anything extra.

DocGSK: "Both the standard pressure 124 gr GD and HST work fine."

DocGSK: "HST 124gr standard pressure works OK (much like standard pressure 124 gr GD), just not quite as good as the +P version. I'd have no worries carrying it if it was all I could get."


https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....old-Dot-vs-HST
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ow-about-124gr
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-vs-147-P-HST)

I saw the 147 gr discussion, but missed the 124 gr somehow. Thanks for sharing that.

[ABNAK]

I don't think the list is merely whether ammunition passes the FBI protocol. People have asked the creator of that list, DocGKR, why the regular pressure 124gr is not on the list (and, likewise, why the 147gr +P is not on the list). His answer is that the 124gr +P performs better than the regular 124gr, whereas the 147gr +P offers "no advantage" to the regular 147gr.


Q: Whats the deal with the HST 147 +p. I have a case of it. I got it for the little edge in velocity. Why is the standard HST 147 better?
A: (DocGSK) Not better, but the +P does not give you anything extra.

DocGSK: "Both the standard pressure 124 gr GD and HST work fine."

DocGSK: "HST 124gr standard pressure works OK (much like standard pressure 124 gr GD), just not quite as good as the +P version. I'd have no worries carrying it if it was all I could get."


https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....old-Dot-vs-HST
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ow-about-124gr
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-vs-147-P-HST)

For my purposes the only thing "extra" about the +P version is to give standard length barrel velocities out of a shorter tube. Having said that, heavy-for-caliber loads tend to not lose as much speed when going to shorter barrels as their lighter counterparts. i.e. a 147gr wouldn't lose as much velocity going from a 4" barrel to a 3" one as say a 115gr would.

[moonshot]

Does anyone have any info on the "newer" (as in the last year or so) version of the 147gr standard pressure HST (P9HST2)? There is a thread on another forum where it was shown that newer samples had shallower and shorter skives on the bullet than older samples of the same round.

I have confirmed this with several boxes of the newer 147gr HSTs (purchased in the last year or so) comparred to several boxes of 147gr HSTs left over from several years ago. Definately a noticable difference.

I've shot both out of my G26. I haven't noticed any difference in felt recoil or accuracy. I have no way to measure velocity, but I have read of a 50 FPS drop in velovity comparred to older 147gr HSTs. I also do not know how it performs in ordnance gel. Again, I've read the newer 147gr penetrates more but expands less than the older version. My 124gr HST will do that, so I am not sure what the change in 147gr ammo is all about.

Can anyone comment of this? Was this change intentional? If so, why? What improvement does this bring?

[ABNAK]

Does anyone have any info on the "newer" (as in the last year or so) version of the 147gr standard pressure HST (P9HST2)? There is a thread on another forum where it was shown that newer samples had shallower and shorter skives on the bullet than older samples of the same round.

I have confirmed this with several boxes of the newer 147gr HSTs (purchased in the last year or so) comparred to several boxes of 147gr HSTs left over from several years ago. Definately a noticable difference.

I've shot both out of my G26. I haven't noticed any difference in felt recoil or accuracy. I have no way to measure velocity, but I have read of a 50 FPS drop in velovity comparred to older 147gr HSTs. I also do not know how it performs in ordance gel. Again, I've read the newer 147gr penetrates more but expands less than the older version. My 124gr HST will do that, so I am not sure what the change in 147gr ammo is all about.

Can anyone comment of this? Was this change intentional? If so, why? What improvement does this bring?

Sometimes the old adage "If it ain't broke don't fix it" comes into play. The 147gr HST's (both +P and non +P) penetrated and expanded quit well. Why Federal needed to "fix" it is lost on me.

[Straight Shooter]

Sometimes the old adage "If it ain't broke don't fix it" comes into play. The 147gr HST's (both +P and non +P) penetrated and expanded quit well. Why Federal needed to "fix" it is lost on me.

That is my thinking on the G2...whats it doing the established regular Gold Dot aint?
Also- ordered some standard pressure and +P 147gr. HST today...gonna do some chrony & accuracy work when it arrives with my G19 & G17.
As I have reported here a couple of times...you've got to check for yourselves on ammo makers velocity claims.
I chronoed two different lots of HST +P 230gr .45ACP last year...advertised velocity is 950fps...NOPE. Out of my Glock 41 it averaged as follows for ten rounds of each lot:
LOW: 864
HI: 909
ES: 45
AV: 883
That's 67fps slower than advertised. Got a VERY "meh" response from Federal about it. And Hornady is THE WORST at skewing advertised velocity,imho. So, always check & verify if possible.

[ABNAK]

That is my thinking on the G2...whats it doing the established regular Gold Dot aint?
Also- ordered some standard pressure and +P 147gr. HST today...gonna do some chrony & accuracy work when it arrives with my G19 & G17.
As I have reported here a couple of times...you've got to check for yourselves on ammo makers velocity claims.
I chronoed two different lots of HST +P 230gr .45ACP last year...advertised velocity is 950fps...NOPE. Out of my Glock 41 it averaged as follows for ten rounds of each lot:
LOW: 864
HI: 909
ES: 45
AV: 883
That's 67fps slower than advertised. Got a VERY "meh" response from Federal about it. And Hornady is THE WORST at skewing advertised velocity,imho. So, always check & verify if possible.

I got 1021fps out of my Glock 19 with HST 147gr +P a few years back. Shot it into 13" of pork loin through 4 layers of denim. It came to rest in a gallon ziplock baggie filled with water I had placed behind the meat. Expanded to .60 so I was quite pleased.

[ST911]

Strange as it may sound, ammunition manufacturers know a good deal more about their products than we consumers do. When comprehensive internal testing, outside 3rd party testing, and field reports are evaluated they may reveal aspects of performance that benefit from tweaks. Such tweaks may also be needed for a particular customer's specifications, and incorporating it in an entire sku's production is usually more efficient. Even before it's a loaded cartridge, component manufacturers have their own processes and individual product development as well.

There's much more to it than the naked eye. Certainly, more than a few rounds through a chronograph, into a gel concoction, and onto youtube.

As for the G2, it does a bunch of things that the regular 147 doesn't. Most folks won't need them to do it and are well served by the legacy product.