OTMs vs Bonded SP

[Wolf.545 x .39]

Part of it is because the TBBC bullet is quite special and there are royalties associated with using it. The TBBC design isn't owned by Federal/ATK; they just license it for their use.

The TBBC uses a higher antimony lead alloy than the gold dot, which uses pure lead. An analysis of a cutaway of the TBBC also shows something that the electroplated Gold Dot can never have; variable jacket thickness along the length of the bullet.

The "tougher" lead alloy core of the TBBC, along with the varying ratio of core to jacket thickness, affords the TBBC the ability to initiate immediate expansion and to control that expansion better than the Gold Dot..... or ANY other bonded soft point aside from maybe the Nosler Bonded Base..... Which i won't call a copy of the TBBC, but I'll state it's obviously CLEARLY inspired by it. Which is why Winchester uses it in the RA556B, the current FBI load.

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I'm glad I ordered it based on how you describe it. I don't have alot of money but For a 5.56 rifle I wanted the best barrier blind load even if its only 5% better than the 2nd best. The question now is for home defense what do I put in my rifle, Hornady Tap 2 or TBBC barrier blind? I'm sure both would be fine. I live in an inner city so I need to be a little careful. Black Hills TSX look like a great all around purpose round to but is outrageously priced. My next purchase will be training ammo though.These barrier blind rounds don't tumble? Just don't hear about BB rounds and a tumbling effect.

[BufordTJustice]

I'm glad I ordered it based on how you describe it. I don't have alot of money but For a 5.56 rifle I wanted the best barrier blind load even if its only 5% better than the 2nd best. The question now is for home defense what do I put in my rifle, Hornady Tap 2 or TBBC barrier blind? I'm sure both would be fine. I live in an inner city so I need to be a little careful. Black Hills TSX look like a great all around purpose round to but is outrageously priced. My next purchase will be training ammo though.

Well, these are the good ole days as there are several high quality loads from which to choose.

But, yeah, the 62gr TBBC at 5.56 velocities is the best BSP right now.

If it's me, I load the TBBC for HD. As Doc Gary K Roberts says, the presumptive dangers of overpenetration are overstated.

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[Kdubya]

Unfortunately my favorite barrier blind load is no longer being manufactured; the Core Lokt Ultra Bonded (aka CLUB). From Doc's data, they actually were at the top of the list in terms of expansion and retained weight. I do have quite a few stashed away, as well as a nice mix of TBBC, Fusion, GD, and 50gr TSX. And, as I'd stated earlier, the differences between each of them is fairly inconsequential.

[Wolf.545 x .39]

I ordered 100 rounds for $100 today of 5.56 TBBC. I ordered it because I never seen it sold that cheap. Its usually $1.50 per round. Still expensive but I like going with top notch ammo.

[mig1nc]

I searched the internet for expansion thresholds.

Nosler claims 1600 fps minimum for the 64gr bonded (Winchester RA556B FBI load).
The only TBBC numbers I could find was Dr. Roberts saying it expanded down to ~2200 fps.
64gr Gold Dot is supposed to be around 1800 fps.
62gr TSX is supposed to be around 1700 fps.

Does anybody have better numbers on the TBBC? Seems like the expansion threshold would be crossed at fairly limited range if that is true. All the other loads should give you around 200 yards of expansion range from 10.5" SBR/pistol.

[Kdubya]

I searched the internet for expansion thresholds.

Nosler claims 1600 fps minimum for the 64gr bonded (Winchester RA556B FBI load).
The only TBBC numbers I could find was Dr. Roberts saying it expanded down to ~2200 fps.
64gr Gold Dot is supposed to be around 1800 fps.
62gr TSX is supposed to be around 1700 fps.

Does anybody have better numbers on the TBBC? Seems like the expansion threshold would be crossed at fairly limited range if that is true. All the other loads should give you around 200 yards of expansion range from 10.5" SBR/pistol.

Did you get the other numbers directly from the MFGs of each round? Personally, I'll give mfgs the benefit of the doubt, but am a proponent of "trust but verify". Although,I do believe some end user testing does corroborate the above velocity thresholds. I think a member here (WS6 maybe?) actually had some pretty detailed testing with GDs in different weights.

That's just a pretty big difference between Doc's numbers for the TBBC vs the competition. While none are identical projectiles, the basic design is pretty similar. So, I'm inclined to think that someone's numbers are off. For bullets that are essentially in the same class, I'm not sure the construction of one would be different enough to produce a 400-500 FPS deviation. Could be, but seems a little curious.

Again, if your data is straight from the mfgs, it might be a case of, "it can open up at as low as XXXX FPS". But, in reality, the velocity at which they'll perform consistently may be a few 100 FPS more. Just my guess. While I've always been very intrigued by ballistics, I am by no means an expert.

Ultimately, whether it's 1700 or 2200 is probably irrelevant for most everyone in the community. If it somehow got to a point where we legitimately need to engage aggressors beyond even 50-100 yards, worrying about bullet expansion is going to be pretty low on the list of concerns. Even for guys serving overseas, it likely matters very little. While it's much more plausible that they'll encounter targets beyond a couple hundred yards, the above rounds aren't even an option.

At the end of the day, we're probably best served by picking a round that is affordable for our individual budgets, runs well in our rifle, is catered to our theoretical use cases (barrier or non-barrier), and will consistently perform at "me to you" distances. Beyond that, it's really only something that's interesting to discuss and research.

[mig1nc]

The Nosler bonded bullet data is from their website.
The TSX 1700 fps number may actually be for the TTSX (not sure), but an actual Barnes rep posted online 1900 fps, specially for the bullet used in the Black Hills 62gr optimized 5.56 TSX.
For the Gold Dot, 1800 fps was the minimum required spec for the ICE contract it won, so we can assume that the talk of "expands below 1800 fps" to be at least close enough.

I can find nothing on the TBBC, except that quote from Doctor Roberts. Now, I did find lots of interesting discussion around it, and how it is constructed differently from all the others. I suspect it may be an accurate number because it seems to be more optimized for barrier penetration than the others. And if the 1900 number is the correct number for the optimized TSX, then 2200 isn't that far off. However it does represent a significant drop in effective range from an SBR.

EDIT: It's likely that the 64gr GD may match the initial expansion threshold of the Nosler bullet used in the RA556B FBI load. 1800 was the minimum they were required to meet and many people are claiming lower.

[moonshot]

This isn't really pertinent to the thread, but many here are comparing the 64gr GDSP to other various rounds. I thought Speer had discontinued the 64gr SP (24448) and replaced it with a 62gr SP (24445).

I haven't seen any 64gr GDSPs in a while, while I do see plenty of 55gr and 62gr samples. Did I miss something?

[Wolf.545 x .39]

I'm gonna be loading my go to mags with Federal TBBC. I'm not gonna worry too much about overpenetration when handgun bullets tend to penetrate further than light 5.56 rounds. My Glock 22 is my third option, my AK74 the 2nd and AR15
My first option.

[mr h]

This isn't really pertinent to the thread, but many here are comparing the 64gr GDSP to other various rounds. I thought Speer had discontinued the 64gr SP (24448) and replaced it with a 62gr SP (24445).

I haven't seen any 64gr GDSPs in a while, while I do see plenty of 55gr and 62gr samples. Did I miss something?

all of the 223 gold dots i've bought from palmetto have been 64gr.

i think the fusion are 62's though right?