Meth is a terrible thing.

[Irish]

heh? so we should just legalize everything, combat nothing, and allow people to do whatever they wish?

I'm headed out for dinner so I'll have to write a better response some other time but for now my simple answer is yes. It's called freedom to ingest or do to your body whatever you choose as long as you're not infringing on the rights of others.

[dookie1481]

Raise your kids right and that kind of stuff shouldnt even tempt them. People do drugs cause they are looking for soemthing, if they have nothing to find they wont fall into that growd...

Nonsense. Some people are just wired differently.

Neurological and neurochemical abnormalities are thought to be complicit in many peoples' aberrant behavior, such as substance abuse, thrill-seeking, nymphomania, and many other things.

Would you say that depression is caused by parents not loving you enough or something similarly simplistic?

There are many variables that factor into human behavior, and most are poorly understood at best.

Jay

[lwoper]

here is an interesting site before and after pics
http://www.drugfree.org/portal/drugi.../photo_12.html

[Cascades236]

I'm headed out for dinner so I'll have to write a better response some other time but for now my simple answer is yes. It's called freedom to ingest or do to your body whatever you choose as long as you're not infringing on the rights of others.

I'm going to guess that you've never known someone addicted to heroin or meth. When you do, then we'll talk about infringing on the rights of others...

You have this idea that these people only destroy themselves, when in actuality they TEAR apart families and communities and victimize whoever on their way to their next fix.

[rob_s]

I'm going to guess that you've never known someone addicted to heroin or meth. When you do, then we'll talk about infringing on the rights of others...

You have this idea that these people only destroy themselves, when in actuality they TEAR apart families and communities and victimize whoever on their way to their next fix.

soooo, the fix is what then?

I'm not saying it's the case every time, but certainly in many of these cases it's that same family that failed them to begin with. It's like those mothers you see on COPS wailing away when their gang-banger kind gets killed. Where was that mother the previous 16 years?

[Irish]

I'm going to guess that you've never known someone addicted to heroin or meth. When you do, then we'll talk about infringing on the rights of others...

You have this idea that these people only destroy themselves, when in actuality they TEAR apart families and communities and victimize whoever on their way to their next fix.

You'd be guessing wrong. I know several people who have been imprisoned and died due to drug addiction and my opinion is still the same. Most often the vast majority of people in this forum scream and jump up & down about gun rights and I agree with them. However, when it comes to other freedoms and ideas that go outside of their narrow scope of interest they refuse to entertain any other ideas. As is typical with most people I have encountered, they believe that their moral position on what is acceptable to use as an intoxicant should be the standard for the whole of society, think booze, coffee & cigs. This is an egoistical, myopic attitude that serves no purpose.

My position has nothing to do with my use of drugs or the lack thereof; it has to do with what is moralistically right in a "free society" and who should determine what you are legally able to ingest into your own body. These immoral laws assert that you do not own your own body and you have no right to control what you ingest whether it is an intoxicant, stimulant, depressant or something else unless it's prescribed by a state certified person who has paid the government to have the right to give you these drugs as they see fit. The audacity of our elected government officials imposing their morals and dictating what you can and can not consume depending on how you feel yourself is reprehensible to say the least.

If these laws and the War on Drugs are supposed to create a drug-free America, then I can honestly say that after hundreds of billions of dollars spent, millions of arrests, and decades of escalating police and military efforts, the war on drugs is a complete and utter failure in my opinion. Please bear in mind that at various times in our country's history, heroin, cocaine, marijuana, LSD, ecstasy, and amphetamines were legal. To put someone in a prison cell or to execute someone for engaging in private behavior or mutually voluntary trade, purchasing/selling drugs, is completely unconstitutional. That is one of the corner stones of a constitutional republic, free economy, free trade and ownership of one's self and property.

Admittedly drugs aren't the best thing in the world for you, no shit, that isn't my assertion. Neither is too much TV, fast food, caffeine or sexual partners… and the list goes on and on. But, I don't need the government telling me what should be legal to do with my own body at any time for any reason! A free person in a free country has the right to determine what brings them happiness as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

The laws of supply & demand will always dictate what happens in our society due to market demands. If someone is willing to purchase something, drugs or otherwise, than the entrepreneur will find a way to supply that demand. Our unconstitutional laws also provide a higher profit margin for the "drug dealers" due to the fact of having a limited supply and the product is hard to come by due to its illegality.

Richard Nixon declared the "War on Drugs" over 40 years ago... when will we win?

[Cameron]

irishluck73 that is an excellent post, I agree completely.

Cameron

[Irish]

irishluck73 that is an excellent post, I agree completely.

Cameron

Thanks. People yell to the skies and anyone who'll listen that we live in a free country and when it boils down to it a lot of them are scared of what freedom really is.

[Rock Nova]

The audacity of our elected government officials imposing their morals and dictating what you can and can not consume depending on how you feel yourself is reprehensible to say the least.
.
.
.
To put someone in a prison cell or to execute someone for engaging in private behavior or mutually voluntary trade, purchasing/selling drugs, is completely unconstitutional.
.
.
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A free person in a free country has the right to determine what brings them happiness as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

You make some very good points. However, the angle I'm seeing this issue from is less about laws regarding morality and more about safety in general. I don't see it as the gov't saying that drug/alcohol use doesn't fit their moral code so they should be illegal, rather I see it as drugs/alcohol impair the judgment of the users and become a hazard to the general public so they have been made illegal.

About the private behavior thing...if only people would remain in their private setting after using drugs/alcohol. The problem is that they don't - they go out and intermix with everyone else despite not being able to see/think/act properly, becoming a hazard to everyone else who is nice enough not to purposely endanger those around them.

And the third part in bold, "as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others" - once again, many times they do end up infringing on the rights of others. I should be able to drive to the store with my wife and kids without having to worry about exactly how many of the other drivers are shitfaced because we have no laws to deter that kind of behavior. Hell, I would bet that laws against drinking and driving deter WAY more people from driving under the influence than they actually catch and punish. Can you imagine how much more dangerous the roads would be without those laws? So to me it is more about safety than morality.

[Irish]

1.You make some very good points. 2.However, the angle I'm seeing this issue from is less about laws regarding morality and more about safety in general. I don't see it as the gov't saying that drug/alcohol use doesn't fit their moral code so they should be illegal, rather I see it as drugs/alcohol impair the judgment of the users and become a hazard to the general public so they have been made illegal.

3. About the private behavior thing...if only people would remain in their private setting after using drugs/alcohol. The problem is that they don't - they go out and intermix with everyone else despite not being able to see/think/act properly, becoming a hazard to everyone else who is nice enough not to purposely endanger those around them.

4. And the third part in bold, "as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others" - once again, many times they do end up infringing on the rights of others. I should be able to drive to the store with my wife and kids without having to worry about exactly how many of the other drivers are shitfaced because we have no laws to deter that kind of behavior. Hell, I would bet that laws against drinking and driving deter WAY more people from driving under the influence than they actually catch and punish. Can you imagine how much more dangerous the roads would be without those laws? So to me it is more about safety than morality.

1. So do you and it's nice to have an intelligent debate/conversation rather than just throwing out the established dogma.

2. Shouldn't we just outlaw everything that is possibly ingestible that has a negative impact on a person's thought process? What about all the prescription drugs that have far greater side effects than illegal drugs? Prescription drugs are abused at an alarming number and yet rarely thought of in the war on drugs. People will huff gas, paint, glue, etc. to get their fix of whatever they're looking for no matter what laws you make.

3. Unless they've harmed another person or their property than all the hypotheticals are just that, hypothetical. Once the person has committed a crime against another person then they should be punished accordingly.

4. There are already laws in place to deal with a person who is inebriated who causes harm to a person or property. More laws do not make for a safer society. Why don't we set speed limiters in cars so that they can't exceed the speed limit? Texting, reading, eating, putting on make up are all major distractors when driving as well, should they be outlawed?

If marijuana is a gate way drug to "harder" drugs than drugs themselves are a gate way to the White House, ask our last 3 Presidents. Gotta run and get some work done...