I had Nighthawk Custom build a custom spec'ced Talon II for me some 10 years ago. While overall I liked what they provided, in the long run I wasn't all that enamored with the gun. There were some things that I felt should have been scrutinized and corrected during construction and assembly, and quality recoil springs tended to have an abbreviated lifespan (some 800 rounds) before requiring replacement (or operational hiccups developed).
Currently, the same pistol goes for over $1000 what I paid-they're around $3,400. For a semi-custom gun, I simply don't feel that objectively the value is there. I have other 1911s that shoot as well or better, and are more reliable. And my Gen 3 Glock G21 is just as accurate, and more reliable than any of them.
I can understand the draw, and relative value (or the lack of need to quantify value per se) in a truly custom 1911. But you probably need to assess (and be knowledgeable enough to viably assess) what you want/need/are getting.
And I think the semi-custom 1911s are ridiculously overpriced, and have been for years. Marketing, self-hype, and various gunwriters have hyper-inflated their desirability and perceived value in my opinion. While they might provide pride of ownership, quite simply they're depreciating (not appreciating) assets. While they may be intrinsically good firearms, a detailed perusal of the auction/sales sites pretty quickly establishes that they are not really prime investment choices.
For a viable, hard-use, decently accurate, well assembled, decently finished and reliable 1911, I really don't think that you need to exceed the $1,500 mark. And there are several that can be found for under $1,000, such as a Colt Series 70 Reproduction or 1991.
Best, Jon
Last edited by JonInWA; 05-24-18 at 17:43.
I agree that the semi-customs are overpriced, but if you want a true hard-use 1911 that's ready to go and up to the task, you're GOING TO spend that $3K, whether it be up front on a sem-custom, or a few months from now when the clunker needs building.
Sorry, I just don't buy into (no intentional pun...) that you have to, immediately or inevitably spend $3K+ to get into a decent hard-use (and I'll define ""hard use" as one for duty/carry/competition, where the user will be expending at least 1K rounds a year through it (I know; some of us here will be expending 1K rounds a month).
Hilton Yam in his 10-8 Performance articles laid thing out nicely, if these articles are still available. Some of the specific 1911s he stipulates as acceptable are the Springfield Armory Full Size MC Operator (which I think they now call the Loaded MC), which you can get from Bud's at just over $1K; and Colt Series 70 Reproductions and 1991s, which are both available at just under $1K. And when you go down his projected maintenance/component replacement recommendations, I don't see much requiring extraordinary expenditure until you reach the 20K roundcount.
While an owner of these 1911s may desire to replace some components initially (such as sights, MIM action parts, et al), and perhaps have the pistol be the recipient of a dehorning or action job, these things not going to cost thousands of dollars to accomplish-and may well fall into the category of "wants" as opposed to "needs" per se.
Interesting discussion. And, these days, realistically, for a "hard use" pistol, I personally am far more likely to go to other platforms, such as HK, Glock or Beretta. But that's perhaps just me.
Best, Jon
I think I've completed the circle of life when it comes to 1911s. I started off at 21 years of age with a Remington. Moved on to Colt's and Springfield. Then Dan Wesson. Then I sent those off to Wilson Combat for custom work. Then got into the 1911 custom game meticulously planning and picking parts for several builds. Then bought a Wilson Combat because that gave me a headache to pick all the parts and dimensions.
I am much happier with my Wilson CQB (built 2017) than any of my custom 1911s which were major overhauls by well-known smiths. The custom Colts have that special charm, and look the best. They work 100% (or I had them rectified to do so).
But I can't mentally get past the fact that they are customs. If the 'smiths die, I am SOL. If I have a warranty issue, I have to schedule it and I also feel bad because I know it's taking food off the table. Why? Because I've built a personal relationship with them and I like them. The rails are welded on. Things are put together from scratch sometimes. It's beautiful in it's own way. In fact, they are drop dead gorgeous. And I am scared to ding em up because they are 4-5k. I only have 1 custom left, for sentimental reasons. I told myself I wouldn't, but I do care.
I think I much prefer the Wilson, where all the parts are built to a certain level of tolerance, the margin of error is removed through the assembly line, and parts are designed by them to work with each other. I don't care that Kydex took the finish off. ArmorTuff is cheap and doesn't take special labor or dependent on another shop or process. If a part breaks, I get a return label. I can source all my mags from there. I don't worry.
If I were to buy a 1911 right now, I'd get a Colt S70 with a reliability package, put a Wilson Ambi, a Wilson medium trigger, Yo-bo Gold front sight and rear, a magwell, and get it Cerakoted black after a de-horn. Not even a beavertail. I could run that the same as I do any of the customs I've owned or the Wilson.
You really don't need to drop 3k to get a hard use pistol. I've heard this mantra being passed around M4C for the past 6 years, and I even bought into it. Experience has taught me otherwise, even though I own 3k+ 1911s. You spend 3k when you want a nice-ass 1911.
You can buy a Colt Wiley Clapp Gov't for 1k and spend about 400-500 bucks to have a well known smith massage it over and replace the sights and rattle trigger, and walk away with a wonderful 1911. You gotta pay 3k for those perfectly blended grip safeties, Harrison trigger jobs, perfectly reamed barrels, blended sights, and excessive machining.
Last edited by beschatten; 05-31-18 at 07:41.
IMO one does not need to spend $3000.00+- to get a hard use pistol. But more power to ya' if you want to, those customs certainly look great in the pictures here on M4C and that's as close as I'll get to one.
I have a hard use Colt .38 super, nothing like the 80,000 round plus I've read about but I've treated it like a Glock for the past few years. It just keeps going.
Depends on what you consider hard use and how much shipping and waiting you can tolerate.
When I say it costs $3K to get a hard use pistol out of the box, I don't mean piecemeal building up an off the shelf Colt or Springfield. Doing that is ridiculous in it's own right.
Last edited by 17K; 05-31-18 at 19:42.
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