Shooting steel targets dangerous?

[D-R]

Funny you should mention M193, back about 6 years or so, was shooting some AR500 with M193 out of a 20" barrel. It stopped Green Tip just fine, but the 193 punched clear through. I was livid, as I thought my steel supplier had given me the wrong spec. Turns out, I probably should have mentioned it to someone, as I believe it was a short time later the trouble with M193 @ 3000+ fps and certain steel rifle plates arose. I think Doc knows what I am talking about. That durned M193...!

D-R

[markm]

You got that right. M855 has always been milder on my Armorgard targets than M193. That velocity is a killer.

[InfiniteGrim]

You got that right. M855 has always been milder on my Armorgard targets than M193. That velocity is a killer.

Funny you should mention M193, back about 6 years or so, was shooting some AR500 with M193 out of a 20" barrel. It stopped Green Tip just fine, but the 193 punched clear through. I was livid, as I thought my steel supplier had given me the wrong spec. Turns out, I probably should have mentioned it to someone, as I believe it was a short time later the trouble with M193 @ 3000+ fps and certain steel rifle plates arose. I think Doc knows what I am talking about. That durned M193...!

D-R

What ever you two were using as targets was NOT AR500. I have had the exact opposite happen with both 3/8" AR500, T6061 aluminum (1.25" thick 50 yards), and Ductil Iron (1" 50 yards)

[markm]

What ever you two were using as targets was NOT AR500. I have had the exact opposite happen

What do you mean the opposite happened?

And I assure you... I know what my gongs are. I've been doing this a little while.

[500grains]

I am puzzled by some of these posts. I have the following:

- 1 each full size IPSC 3/8" AR500, not angled
- 2 each 3/4 size IPSC 3/8" AR500 set at 30 degree down angle
- 1 each 12 inch round gong, 1/2" AR600, not angled, yes AR600.

With ANY steel core ammo, including the crap russian commercial 5.45 x 39 with low velocity because they used the wrong powder, the steel gets little pock marks.

With XM193, shooting the 3/4 IPSC angled 30 degrees down as close at 6 FEET (that was a safety test), I get NO POCK MARKS and no penetration.

With 7.62 NATO ball, lead core, no pock marks and no penetration.

With 7.62 168 gr SMK, no pock marks and no penetration.

With 7.62 NATO military match white box stuff (I think it is 173 grain lead core), I get no pock marks and no penetration.

For comparison, I have several man hole covers of different sizes weighing 75 to 400 pounds. At 25 yards, XM193 will crack a man hole cover and after enough rounds it will punch through. At 100 yards or more, a man hole cover is good for hundreds of rounds and does not look like it has been touched.

[markm]

With 7.62 NATO ball, lead core, no pock marks and no penetration.

With 7.62 168 gr SMK, no pock marks and no penetration.

With 7.62 NATO military match white box stuff (I think it is 173 grain lead core), I get no pock marks and no penetration.

Yep. I always get a chuckle when I let someone shoot their 308 on my gongs and they thing they're going to punch a hole in them.

For comparison, I have several man hole covers of different sizes weighing 75 to 400 pounds. At 25 yards, XM193 will crack a man hole cover and after enough rounds it will punch through. At 100 yards or more, a man hole cover is good for hundreds of rounds and does not look like it has been touched.

True. M193's light bullet drops velocity VERY FAST. That's why gongs last a lot longer if shot at from 100 yards or more.

[sabresbrs]

So I am back to the drawing board...I shot my steel plates at 75 yards with hp 762x39 rounds and it left no scratches. I put two mags of xm193 556 out of a 20 inch upper to it and was left with 60 holes completely through my target....

[Hmac]

So I am back to the drawing board...I shot my steel plates at 75 yards with hp 762x39 rounds and it left no scratches. I put two mags of xm193 556 out of a 20 inch upper to it and was left with 60 holes completely through my target....

Yup. That's normal.

[markm]

Yup. That's normal.

Indeed. And about what I'd expect. 7.62-39 isn't traveling anywhere near what M193 is.

[sabresbrs]

I was more concerned about the 30 cal bullets penetrating more than the 556. Guess I learned a hard lesson. Wonder if the 556 would penetrate out of my SBR? I will find out tomorrow hopefully.