BRT 16" OPTIMUM Barrel w/ Extended Length Gas System

[Kdubya]

I did a quick sight in. 1"-1.5" at 50 yards using iron sights and 55gr reloads. Some groups might have been up to 2". It was cold, the windchill was getting to me and I was in a hurry, so maybe I'd do better with better ammo and more time. Attachment 43735

Also, I'm not good at pictures...

Don't sell yourself short. Irons are one thing. Shooting from inside a vehicle, on the other hand, isn't all that conducive to tight groups. Especially from the driver's side if you're a righty

Now, on a serious note, I'll be interested to see more reports on performance. Not just initial groups, but how it holds up over time. We've seen a lot of companies move away from chrome lining in favor of nitride/melonite/qpq/etc, but the jury still seems to be out longevity. The BFLV thread over on arfcom, which made even made its way over here a short while back, caused a bit of excitement with reports of a melonited barrel from HK keyholing after 10,000 rounds. While this one instance isn't statistically significant, it didn't help to quash claims that it's markedly inferior to chrome lining.

Keyholing is one thing, and the HK sample may truly be an outlier, but accuracy doesn't have to degrade to that drastic a point to become unacceptable. I'll be starting a build soon, and this barrel is definitely on the "list". The GUNNER from Faxon, who it seems makes the BRT barrel as well, is also an option. Reports clearly indicate both of those options make for very soft shooting rifles; with the BRT being on the exceptional end of that spectrum. Still, whether or not Nitriding is worth its salt (bath) is still up in the air.

Like with other components, the person/company doing the finishing, coating, treatment, etc. may be what actually matters. I tried searching this thread, but Clint didn't seem to provide any specifics on long term performance testing. Rightfully so, he instead discussed that much of this will be dependent upon application by the end user. While it's probably too soon for end user reports on the BRT, and assuming Faxon does build this barrel, anyone have higher round-counts on their Faxon tubes? Anyone planning to do accuracy degradation testing on the BRT?

[opngrnd]

To be honest, the pictures were more about the weather than the shooting position. (I shot prone beside the vehicle.)

But as far as accuracy, I figure it'll go something like this: I'll shoot it until I don't like it anymore, and I'll replace it. I'll have at least 3,000 reloaded rounds down the pipe this year, and likely another 1,000 factory rounds at a minimum personally, and that doesn't include people who want to show up and use my stuff for whatever reasons. Once it gets finished being set up, it'll be shot for accuracy baselines that will be repeated every time I check POA/POI. (About monthly.) So it'll be a matter of time, but probably not too much time before we have an idea. There are plenty of people who shoot more than me.

[elephantrider]

Don't sell yourself short. Irons are one thing. Shooting from inside a vehicle, on the other hand, isn't all that conducive to tight groups. Especially from the driver's side if you're a righty

Now, on a serious note, I'll be interested to see more reports on performance. Not just initial groups, but how it holds up over time. We've seen a lot of companies move away from chrome lining in favor of nitride/melonite/qpq/etc, but the jury still seems to be out longevity. The BFLV thread over on arfcom, which made even made its way over here a short while back, caused a bit of excitement with reports of a melonited barrel from HK keyholing after 10,000 rounds. While this one instance isn't statistically significant, it didn't help to quash claims that it's markedly inferior to chrome lining.

Keyholing is one thing, and the HK sample may truly be an outlier, but accuracy doesn't have to degrade to that drastic a point to become unacceptable. I'll be starting a build soon, and this barrel is definitely on the "list". The GUNNER from Faxon, who it seems makes the BRT barrel as well, is also an option. Reports clearly indicate both of those options make for very soft shooting rifles; with the BRT being on the exceptional end of that spectrum. Still, whether or not Nitriding is worth its salt (bath) is still up in the air.

Like with other components, the person/company doing the finishing, coating, treatment, etc. may be what actually matters. I tried searching this thread, but Clint didn't seem to provide any specifics on long term performance testing. Rightfully so, he instead discussed that much of this will be dependent upon application by the end user. While it's probably too soon for end user reports on the BRT, and assuming Faxon does build this barrel, anyone have higher round-counts on their Faxon tubes? Anyone planning to do accuracy degradation testing on the BRT?

I have the BRT Optimum and a brand new Faxon 16" Mid Gunner barrel. I am hoping to get them both tested and compared as best I can. I can give long term durability report as soon as people start sending me cases of ammo

I am guessing that the BFLV HK barrel was exclusively FA/mag dumped by tourists, no? Not saying that completely explains the barrel life, but it certainly doesn't help. It is as you say a data point of one. I thought that no one could get a straight answer on what the barrel interior was on HK barrels were anyway? Nitride/melonite, or not?

A real test of Nitride vs. ________ is going to require that barrel mfg. get on board with it so that they could start with two identical, or as least as practical, barrels and only vary the interior surface.

Like you posted, the best indicator of the BRT barrel longevity is going to be a well used Faxon 4150 barrel.

[Kdubya]

I have the BRT Optimum and a brand new Faxon 16" Mid Gunner barrel. I am hoping to get them both tested and compared as best I can. I can give long term durability report as soon as people start sending me cases of ammo

I am guessing that the BFLV HK barrel was exclusively FA/mag dumped by tourists, no? Not saying that completely explains the barrel life, but it certainly doesn't help. It is as you say a data point of one. I thought that no one could get a straight answer on what the barrel interior was on HK barrels were anyway? Nitride/melonite, or not?

A real test of Nitride vs. ________ is going to require that barrel mfg. get on board with it so that they could start with two identical, or as least as practical, barrels and only vary the interior surface.

Like you posted, the best indicator of the BRT barrel longevity is going to be a well used Faxon 4150 barrel.

Wish I had 10,000 rounds to send you. Then again, if I had the resources to do so, I'd buy a barrel and enjoy testing it myself

I agree that there were a lot of unconfirmed factors with the BFLV barrel. Rate of fire certainly matters. And, as you point out, it didn't appear that there was a definitive answer on if the barrel was actually treated.

I just wish there were some more confirmed reports on roughly how many rounds a Melonited/Nitrided will remain practically accurate; assuming the treatment was done correctly. A number of the barrels I'm looking at (BRT, Faxon, BA, AR15 Performance, etc) are QPQ treated. Part of me says, "Don't worry about it. With many reputable mfgs moving to these treatments, they can't all be doing it blindly. Some must have really tested it before betting the farm on their barrels lasting." Couple this with overwhelmingly favorable user reports with the above mentioned brands/barrels, and I have to believe there would be more examples of premature failure in performance if the treatment were drastically sub-standard.

IIRC, Mrgunsngear said that he's planning to do a test of exactly what you describe. Two identical barrels, with the only difference being QPQ vs CL. That, and the corresponding fallout, are certainly something I'll look forward to.

[elephantrider]

Wish I had 10,000 rounds to send you. Then again, if I had the resources to do so, I'd buy a barrel and enjoy testing it myself

I agree that there were a lot of unconfirmed factors with the BFLV barrel. Rate of fire certainly matters. And, as you point out, it didn't appear that there was a definitive answer on if the barrel was actually treated.

I just wish there were some more confirmed reports on roughly how many rounds a Melonited/Nitrided will remain practically accurate; assuming the treatment was done correctly. A number of the barrels I'm looking at (BRT, Faxon, BA, AR15 Performance, etc) are QPQ treated. Part of me says, "Don't worry about it. With many reputable mfgs moving to these treatments, they can't all be doing it blindly. Some must have really tested it before betting the farm on their barrels lasting." Couple this with overwhelmingly favorable user reports with the above mentioned brands/barrels, and I have to believe there would be more examples of premature failure in performance if the treatment were drastically sub-standard.

IIRC, Mrgunsngear said that he's planning to do a test of exactly what you describe. Two identical barrels, with the only difference being QPQ vs CL. That, and the corresponding fallout, are certainly something I'll look forward to.

Yup, barrels are small potatoes relative to the ammo cost to actually burn one out, which just makes me not want to stress on barrel life. I just picked up the Faxon Gunner for ~150. If it only lasts 5k rds, that is at least $1k in ammo. If it lasts 10k rds, well then you can do the math.

IMO, worst case with a Nitride barrel is that the throat flame cuts and erodes (as some claim) at the same rate as a non-lined barrel, then you have a decent quality 4150 barrel that is not subject to the same rust concerns as an un-treated 4150 or stainless barrel is. I've read reports of wear only in the throat area and the rest of the rifling still looking perfect on a Melonite/Nitride target barrel that was shot out.

Now that I think, about it a a few thousand rounds and a borescope might just answer the question in a comparison test.

[opngrnd]

More informal accuracy testing aka sight in yesterday. In 30 mph straight line winds at freezing Temps. I shot eight 5-round groups using irons and rds as I sighted in from 50 yards, averaging 1.56" including a particularly bad group of 2.07". Using a GI trigger, in less than decent conditions, it'll do. There were actually two more groups but I made a mistake and mixed two groups while adjusting sights. I'll have to buy a few decent bullseye targets to shoot at and shoot at 200.

[BufordTJustice]

200 yard update:



5 shot group at 200 with one called flyer, using federal AE223 55gr and a 4 moa Aimpoint. The dot subtended more than the entire black circle. This is the std Aimpoint micro sight in target from their website. Mag monopod from a wooden table. Target is printed on an 8.5" x 11" sheet with no scaling.

That's a 1.75" 4-shot group at 200 with 4 MOA dot. Sub MOA with 55 FMJ.

The group is shifted slightly right because it's actually zeroed for XM193 and that printed slightly left of AE223.

Can't ask for much more than that.

My range should have the 500 yard steel set up within the month.

[BufordTJustice]

Oh, and in case you're doing the math and wondering why my dot was bigger than the 4" circle at 200 yards, this was because it was so damn bright out that I had to turn my dot brightness WAY up just to see it on the white target. So, it bloomed like a mother.

[Kdubya]

Oh, and in case you're doing the math and wondering why my dot was bigger than the 4" circle at 200 yards, this was because it was so damn bright out that I had to turn my dot brightness WAY up just to see it on the white target. So, it bloomed like a mother.

Thanks for the update. I'd definitely take those results and come away satisfied.

This barrel is still relatively new to you, right? How many rounds would you guess have gone down the pipe?

[BufordTJustice]

Thanks for the update. I'd definitely take those results and come away satisfied.

This barrel is still relatively new to you, right? How many rounds would you guess have gone down the pipe?

Oh sheesh. I put 100 through it today. So, maybe 180?