GSW/blow-out kit components - best bang for the buck

[TAZ]

$300 for 20 people is $15 per kit which puts a serious handicap to a kit. A real TQ by itself will run you $30. Pretty much limits you to a boo-boo kit instead of a blow out kit.

With no formal training and continued practice I'll second the no invasive tools sentiment. No decompression needles, NPA kits, sutures, scalpels... Nothing than can easily make the situation worse if misused under stress.

[Chatterbox]

Thank you, I very much appreciate the information. Hopefully the last question - are Israeli Field Bandage or Olaes Bandage qualitatively better than H-dressing, or is it more of an incremental improvement?

[Grizzly16]

I'm currently trying to put together a set of kits (about 20) for a number of people on a fixed budget (about $300). The budget is such that the "buy once, cry once / two is one" approach is not going to work - some people would end up with nothing. Increasing the budget is not an option. So I would dearly like recommendations for what are the cheapest things that will provide a workable modicum of care. As an illustration, right now I'm thinking a TK4 tourniquet/ Israeli Field Dressing / Kerlix Gauze, which gets me to around $15 or so, but I would dearly love to hear from some SME.

What about a "got get a part time job to finance a kit" approach? I understand budgets are tight. But really look at what you are saying. There are 20 people that think the odds of them getting shot are high enough to carry a TQ, chest seal etc and get training to use it. But the threat isn't serious enough for them to find a way to pay for decent kit? Even if you find a local diner and wait tables for a week or two you could save up enough for a pretty nice kit and red cross training on how to use it.

Call me blunt but it sounds more like people want to pretend they are ready for sthf but have no real interest in what that means.

[Chatterbox]

What about a "got get a part time job to finance a kit" approach? I understand budgets are tight. But really look at what you are saying. There are 20 people that think the odds of them getting shot are high enough to carry a TQ, chest seal etc and get training to use it. But the threat isn't serious enough for them to find a way to pay for decent kit? Even if you find a local diner and wait tables for a week or two you could save up enough for a pretty nice kit and red cross training on how to use it.

Call me blunt but it sounds more like people want to pretend they are ready for sthf but have no real interest in what that means.

I appreciate your point of view, however the constraints are what they are.

[Hmac]

Call me blunt but it sounds more like people want to pretend they are ready for sthf but have no real interest in what that means.

In my experience, it's far more likely that someone will go out and spend $100 or more on an extensive IFAK so that they can pretend that they are ready for the S to HTF. That's IF you believe that the S will ever HTF. I think that every time I see a TQ and/or IFAK attached to the MOLLE vest/belt of the dentist or construction supervisor shooting next to me at any given carbine course. For the vast majority of people, especially untrained people, and the situations that they will face, an "IFAK" with anything more than about $25 worth of Johnson & Johnson doodads is a waste of time and provides only a false sense of medical competence.

[BC520]

Chatterbox, what is the focus of the people these are intended for? Is it LE based, or Citizen/Civilian and Emergency Preparedness based? Reason I ask, because unless you're LE or in an environment where you're more at risk, Hmac's recommendations have a lot of reasoning behind them. A fixed budget will go pretty far with absorbant gauze pads and then kerlix wrap. Hmac is pretty qualified to answer, and any disagreements we have for thoughts are based on differences in my environment in the time it takes to get to guys like him, or in my profession where I physically cannot get out of where I'm at to get to him. For everything else, he's got a lot of experience that's worth listening to.

I'm not a fan of the TK4, as elastic can degrade over time. The CAT or SOFT-T Wide, while more expensive, are better in the long run not only in terms of quality but how they're used as well. If you're looking to add a TQ, I would get the gauze items first. Extremity injuries from a gunshot wound requiring a TQ are not as common. They are an important part of the kit, but in our environment of the US it will more than likely be used for other accidents that occur. We had a Fire Chief in my region who's life was saved by a TQ after an accidental amputation, and it is these types of events that they are used at here, rather than an actual gunshot.

[Chatterbox]

High risk, OCONUS.

[Eurodriver]

Even in Iraq, unless we were CLS certified, we had the mentality of just applying quik clot and/or a TQ. So much safer for everyone involved.

[BC520]

High risk, OCONUS.

If OCONUS, I'm surprised you wouldn't have a bit more support from your employer. And if OCONUS, you should have a vested interest in ponying up the $ for a proper kit, even if it's out of your own salary. You're talking less than $100 to do it right. Are you talking $300 for 20 people, or $300 each?

http://www.austereprovisions.com/Pro...tCode=IC3K%2D1

This plus a proper TQ that isn't effected by elements like a TK4 is the cheapest I'd probably consider without building it yourself from individual components. Are you needing a case also, or just contents? Kits I currently carry on that type of gear is the Blue Force Gear Trauma Kit Now on the PC and the HSGI Bleeder Pouch on the belt.

If you're a gunfighter in a high threat OCONUS, you should probably already have the background as to what, where, and how to obtain the necessary items.

[Arctic1]

Even in Iraq, unless we were CLS certified, we had the mentality of just applying quik clot and/or a TQ. So much safer for everyone involved.

Not sure I agree with that mentality. Not the treatments, but the less than optimal casualty care plan.
The CLS-qualified individual, platoon medic etc. might not be able to get to the pt, or might be the casualty.

Everyone in the squad/team/etc. must have the training, first aid supplies and mental preparedness to administer first aid as required. Most often, life-saving interventions are done by the guys at the site of injury.

Stick to the algorithm you have been taught (ABCDE/MARCH-ON), and stick to the principles of TCCC.

OP, I think you approached the issue backwards.
You should first define the knowledge and interventions the guys should be avle to do, and then design the IFAK around those factors. As others have stated, no point in having fancy stuff if they don't know why, how and when to use it.