Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 30

Thread: Stainless Steel for a Duty Weapon?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    466
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Certain types of stainless are less resistant to rust than others. Heat can cause stainless to degrade too so a gun barrel is no friendly environment. I'm assuming the aforementioned claim was made when applied just to the bore itself because of the chromium plating itself is a barrier to oxidation. As for the parkerizing outside...that'll rust if neglected.
    “The practical success of an idea, irrespective of its inherent merit, is dependent on the attitude of the contemporaries." Nikola Tesla

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    2,251
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cameron View Post
    Some people with experience seem to really like stainless barrels in a combat zone... https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=10551
    Sure, of course they're a good option, especially so for guys that know what they're doing and on specialized teams.

    I wouldn't hesitate to carry one, I think the deciding factor thugh would be my job. Will I be out on foot a majority of the time or will I be in a vehicle. Will my average engagement be 100 meters of 400 meters, etc.

    Personally, I'm thinking about picking up a 16" lightweight Noveske stainless barrel. I'd really like a stainless barrel in there N4 profile, but it appears those are only CHF barrels.

    With many of the guys I've trained with and have seen shoot, I don't think stainless would bring anything to the table. Only a small percentage would see a difference. For those that are in that group, it'll all come down to the job itself and what works best.

    Edit - My stainless Ed Brown 1911 showed rust every couple days of carry, while my coated carbon steel Nighthawks didn't. If I buy a stainless barrel, I'd rather have one that's IonBonded.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; 01-12-12 at 17:28.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    32,833
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by nml View Post
    IDK don't you think it'd be perfectly fine for dumping all your mags?
    Yes... it would... the point is that most SS barrels are pretty beefy profile.... not like the govt profile that the M4 and M16 are.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    976
    Feedback Score
    0
    Roger. Guess I'm used to looking at Larue, Noveske and such that seem to use such nice profiles.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    2,246
    Feedback Score
    5 (100%)
    Sure would, and do. I'm somewhat of an "accuracy nut," and give minor advantages in precision between platforms a lot more consideration than I think most people do. A 0.5 MOA difference in accuracy can make or break my relationship with a rifle.

    Because of this, and also because of the fact that my particular profession requires very precise shooting sticks, I have moved almost exclusively to SS barrels for both work and personal rifles.

    For what it's worth, I wouldn't worry too much about the durability of a Stainless barrel for the vast majority of applications. Here's how I'll qualify that statement:

    I've personally put somewhere around 12K rounds of MK262 through an issued MK12 Mod 1 both in training and overseas in the last few years. All rounds were shot suppressed and some were F/A as it was on an M16A1 lower. F/A fire is not really in the job description for a MK12 but given the capability I chose to become intimately familiar with operating the rifle in this way. The firing schedule over the course of those 12k rounds was varied. Sometimes I would only need to shoot 10 or 15 rounds in one engagement over the course of a few hours...on really bad days it would see 6 or 7 magazines in 10 minutes.

    The barrel was new when I got it so I had a blank slate to work with, which is always a good feeling with an issued gun. Anyway, I established an accuracy baseline in the beginning and found it to be a solid 3/4 MOA gun with MK262. Fast-forward 20 months and 12 thousand rounds (I'm anal about logging round counts with my rifles). I have a ritual of going out to the range every two weeks when possible to confirm zero and make sure accuracy is where it needs to be. Even at the end of my time with that rifle it was still producing the same boringly accurate results after 12k rounds.

    Corrosion wise, I had no issues. The rifle saw austere conditions, summer time humidity, rain, winter sleet and snow...but I always made sure it was oiled and clean. If you take care of a stainless barrel it will take care of you. Neglect it and it and you will have problems. Even relatively cut off from the supply chain in the Afghan mountains, myself and everybody else in the section with stainless barrels was able to keep them in A+ condition. Non-issue unless you plan on not being around a decent CLP for months at a time. That's not real life. While important for somebody's end of the world fantasy, not being able to get CLP on and in the barrel is not a real world consideration.

    On the personally owned side of things (the following is taken from a previous post of mine but much of it applies here):

    What I've noticed about my BCM SS410 barrel is that groups do in fact open up when the barrel gets extremely hot but POI does not shift. The groups just expand but stay centered. Even when the barrel gets to this point (extremely hot), my groups won't open up past 1.5 MOA...better than many chrome lined barrels when cool, and far better than most chrome lined barrels when hot. In the last few months I've put 5K rounds through my SS410 and have noticed no degradation in accuracy. It still prints 1/2 to 3/4 MOA 10 shot groups, only opening up beyond that when really really pushed heat wise.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now, after all that, here's what I think people need to look at when selecting a stainless vs chrome lined barrel.

    - Are you in a position to be able to feed it exclusively match grade ammunition? There's no point in going stainless if you're shooting M855. The best barrel in the world won't make inaccurate ammunition shoot straight. If you can't afford / can't use match ammunition for whatever reason...go chrome.

    - If the answer to above is YES, then you are either pretty well off financially or your unit or organization is in a place to provide it. In either of these cases, the monetary cost / practical difficulty of a replacement barrel will be absolutely trivial in comparison to the cost and availability of ammunition. In other words, if you can afford 10-15k rounds of match ammunition, you can afford a new barrel. If your unit / organization can get that much match ammunition, it can get you a new barrel. In either case, barrel life is a non issue.

    - Corrosion problems and sudden catastrophic failures from high volumes of fire are in my experience not relevant or warranted fears. I'm not trying to tell war stories here but I've asked a lot out of stainless barrels in some engagements as large and frenzied as you can imagine in the valleys and mountains of eastern Afghanistan. I don't forsee many other stainless "duty" barrels being faced with 125 red bearded nutjobs advancing down the mountain toward them. Having been in such situations with a stainless barrel I have to question the veracity of anybody who claims that SS barrels are not durable enough for "combat." Gotta wonder what they're basing that off of. Rest assured that a good stainless barrel is more than durable enough for combat conditions. Deliberately doing 10 mag dumps in a row on the range for Youtube is another story. Also not real life.

    So, my position is that if you can take an honest look at yourself and determine that A) you can shoot to the potential of a match type barrel and B) you can afford to feed it a high quality diet and C) You don't mind the extra weight from the SS and beefier contour and D) you will not neglect to maintain your equipment...that you in fact SHOULD choose a stainless barrel for the edge in accuracy.

    If the answer to any of these or the above questions is NO...go chrome.

    Sorry for being so long winded.
    Last edited by a0cake; 01-12-12 at 23:49.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    976
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by a0cake View Post
    There's no point in going stainless if you're shooting M855.
    Great post and that should be in the AR Bible.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    181
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    I wouldn't have any problem with stainless but for my personal uses for patrol the benefits would very likely not be worth it.

    Besides I would feel bad knocking the glass out of an already smashed door with a custom precision stainless barrel. It is hard on finish.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    32,833
    Feedback Score
    14 (100%)
    There was a guy who deployed with a boutique upper a few years back. It was a stainless bbl.

    It was an ADCO or MSTN or some such.... He ran the piss out of it training and in Afghanastan.... He had pics of the actual upper on deployment and everything.... the guy was legit.

    Anyway... that thing was just fine for his application. For an across the board USGI infantry gun?? I wouldn't think it'd be optimal to have SS bbls.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,837
    Feedback Score
    16 (100%)
    I'll borrow and modify one of LAVs sayings...

    If you treat your gun like we all treat out law mowers, a SS barrel might not be the best choice.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    368
    Feedback Score
    0
    Stainless loses some strength in really cold temperatures. It can become brittle and have a catastrophic failure, although this is only in very light contours. Barrel maker Boots Obermeyer recommends not using stainless if you're going to use your rifle in really cold environments for this reason.

    That said, I've shot a stainless 300 win mag in -30 degrees without any issue but it had a heavier contour.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •