The Official Why My DPMS, Del-Ton, Oly Arms, Etc. Is Better Than Anything Else Thread

[usmcvet]

If you don't like the chart don't use it. All it is is information. I think it is a great place to go so you can at least know what you're buying.

The Honda like the Colt, LMT, or BCM will give you longer trouble free service with more reliability over the years. I have never owned a Honda car but my snow blower, trimmer and push mower are all Honda and they rock. Just like. My LMT and BCM guns.

[dieselgeek]

I thought this thread was going to be interesting, but the chart lovers have arived like ants at picnic.





Okay chart lovers lets hear what makes the “Chart” more useful than a consumer report that ranks a Hyundai over a Honda because the Hyundai has better acceleration and two more speakers?

To me it appears to be nothing more than a check list of manufacturing specifications. You need only read a few posts into the thread that links the “Chart” and you start to find claims of certain manufacturing practices and features that improve reliability that are not listed in the “Chart.” This goes on for 50 pages.

I am not a manufacturing expert, but I believe the manufacturing process and controls are important. If you believe the process and quality controls are not important, then the chart is everything you believe it is. It has the specs, it must be quality, or maybe it’s a Hyundai.

If on the other hand you believe variation and deviation in the manufacturing process significantly impact quality then share with me the virtues of the “Chart” in discerning quality? Hopefully you have more than brand A uses batch testing and brand B tests each one.

What is the failure rate for each manufacturer after the weapon leaves the factory? Customer service won’t put Humpty Dumpty back together if Humpty bet his life on the wrong manufacturer.

I am going to speculate that Colt has a team of engineers that are responsible for managing deviation and variation in their manufacturing process and that if a company sell parts to colt, its process and quality controls are checked by colt. Colt may well belong in the first position, but what about the rest of the pecking order?

I want out of the box reliability, not customer service. Which column on the chart should I be looking at?

very well put

[C4IGrant]

Oh boy, a lot of people failing to understand the chart, the fact that we all know EVERY MANUFACTURER can put out lemons and the fact that we know that only certain parts of the TDP actually matter.

Good luck Rob_S.




C4

[rob_s]

Double

[rob_s]

The best thing About the Chart is that so many people are better educated now than they were before that I don't even have to bother spanking the idjits. It's like they're standing on the side of the road screaming "the moon is made of green cheese!"

[Rmplstlskn]

Oh boy, a lot of people failing to understand the chart, the fact that we all know EVERY MANUFACTURER can put out lemons and the fact that we know that only certain parts of the TDP actually matter.

Good luck Rob_S.




C4

And my comment on re-learning history and past experience didn't help... Not what I intended to say...

Meant to say that the Chart helps us know who makes what and how, so that we don't have to re-learn this info every few years when a new batch of shooter comes along...

My posts seem to suck lately... Need to re-read before I hit POST IT...

Rmpl

[dieselgeek]

THE MOON IS NOT MADE OF CHEESE?????




I own a "non elite" AR with some "elite" parts in it. I think why people get defensive is the stance that some people take.


Elite breaks = Freak Accident

non elite breaks = your gun sucks crap.


I'm not one of those people to get upset about things like that, but some posters seem to think they've hit a high level in life for buying a "better gun". I like the thread by RobS ( I think he also wrote the chart) who explains how to check for a few things on your gun if it's not one of the top brands. Really I think any AR owner should check for these things. Anyway my Bushy is working well for now. It's a never ending project and I'm not brand loyal to it. Really as soon as BCM has that nice BCG back in stock I'm grabbing it. I'll keep my current properly staked OEM one for a backup. Rob, it sucks that you put so much work into something to have it debated everyday. Again I think it's the attitude that some people get when there gun is on the far right that does not match well with the attitude of members with guns on the far left.




edit: I'm saying you might hurt someones feelers

[Palmguy]

Now instead of telling all the Delton, CMMG, DPMS, Bushmaster guys their rifle sucks, we should be helping them to improve the reliability of their rifle. After all, selling a rifle because the bolt carrier or castle nut wasn't staked seems pretty extreme. If the bolt holds up to 500 rounds, chances are it wasn't cracked and magnetic particle inspection wouldn't have found anything anyway. The odds of all the lugs cracking off at one time is incredibly low, almost non-existant, so there is another not so major issue. Is the chamber too tight would be an important one, but again not necessarily cause to sell the rifle.

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

[dieselgeek]

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7376

Oh look it's roollleee eyes.


I think this kinda proves my point.

[120mm]

Oh look it's roollleee eyes.

I think this kinda proves my point.

Actually, all it proves is that you suck at reading.

This forum clearly does not condemn people for buying sub-par carbines, and in fact, most of the high post count membership advocates fixing the gun you have versus selling and buying new, in most cases.

Your straw man, ad hominem attacks are what are out of line. You and seacoastnh obviously have not done a good job of reading the forum prior to attacking "the chart". Heck, you haven't even read and understood the posts a few before yours that broke down that "the chart" is not the end-all, be-all.

What this thread is about is the periodic waves of mouth-breathers who are obviously lack the ability to read, understand and apply the knowledge that some pretty talented folks offer for free on this web-site.

Is there a tendency for some of the newly converted and less erudite to just respond with "BCM good, Bushmaster bad!"? Yes, there is. However, I would guess that even those who realize their BM is a piece of shit and "make it work" have much, much more into their still marginal carbine then they would have if they bought the best carbine available.