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Thread: Reasonable Gun Control Laws

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehLlama View Post
    NFA items such as MGs and DD/AOW stuff I can absolutely see a need for - and I'm even for an equivalent background check for suppressors...
    Outside of the probition era I can't think of any time where legally owned fully automatic guns were much of an issue and I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion and sensationalized by movies and TV. Apparently people in Ohio haven't realized that. I haven't seen any more recent data than this. Link to quote.
    In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the ATF. (Zawitz, Marianne,Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime [PDF].) About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police departments and other governmental agencies (Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.)

    Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.

    The other homicide, possibly involving a legally owned machine gun, occurred on September 14, 1992, also in Ohio.

    In Targeting Guns, Kleck cites the director of ATF testifying before Congress that he knew of less than ten crimes that were committed with legally owned machine guns (no time period was specified). Kleck says these crimes could have been nothing more than violations of gun regulations such as failure to notify ATF after moving a registered gun between states.
    Again in Targeting Guns, Kleck writes, four police officers were killed in the line of duty by machine guns from 1983 to 1992. (713 law enforcement officers were killed during that period, 651 with guns.)

    In 1980, when Miami's homicide rate was at an all-time high, less than 1% of all homicides involved machine guns. (Miami was supposedly a "machine gun Mecca" and drug trafficking capital of the U.S.) Although there are no national figures to compare to, machine gun deaths were probably lower elsewhere. Kleck cites several examples:

    Of 2,200 guns recovered by Minneapolis police (1987-1989), not one was fully automatic.

    A total of 420 weapons, including 375 guns, were seized during drug warrant executions and arrests by the Metropolitan Area Narcotics Squad (Will and Grundie counties in the Chicago metropolitan area, 1980-1989). None of the guns was a machine gun.

    16 of 2,359 (0.7%) of the guns seized in the Detroit area (1991-1992) in connection with "the investigation of narcotics trafficking operations" were machine guns.
    I read about Goldilock's gun restrictions and it went something like this... Some guns are too big for you civilians because they can defeat bullet proof vests. Some guns are too small for civilians to own and can be hidden in a pocket. Some guns don't have a "sporting purpose" for civilians and are considered "assault weapons" so you have no legitimate reason to own them. Some guns are too cheap for civilians, "Saturday Night Specials", meaning anyone can buy one!

  2. #62
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by TehLlama View Post
    NFA items such as MGs and DD/AOW stuff I can absolutely see a need for - and I'm even for an equivalent background check for suppressors (but a lower cost tax stamp, since it's a hearing preservation issue for many).


    As for the rest RR is right the f**k on. Seat belt laws are retarded - but now wearing seat belts is for retards, and parents who do not seat belt in their minor dependents should be regarded as negligent. That's just one self-contained rant from one of the many points brought up, the same minor impingement on liberty is identical in logic to one that means absolute tyranny - the only difference is time and apathy.
    Wait a minute, WHAT. . .

    You are for government regulation of NFA items but think seat belt laws are "means to absolute tyranny". . .

    You do realize that there are nations in socialist Europe that don't regulate machine guns and suppressors right?
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  3. #63
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    Again, what is wrong with a law like in Vermont, where it is illegal to carry with intent to commit a crime with the firearm?

    No block to people who don't commit the crimes but if you do commit a crime with one, yet another book to throw at you.


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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose-Knuckle View Post
    Wait a minute, WHAT. . .

    You are for government regulation of NFA items but think seat belt laws are "means to absolute tyranny". . .

    You do realize that there are nations in socialist Europe that don't regulate machine guns and suppressors right?
    Irony.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBecker 72 View Post
    Bullshit! Every time someone comes up with one of these stories there is way more shady details involved than a single broken part on a semiautomatic weapon and a single burst of automatic fire.

    Post up the case information and prove me wrong and I will gladly apologize, but until then I won't buy into this same old story that gets told on gun forums all the time. It always turns out to be a bullshit tale or some dumbass that got caught with his modified weapon.
    What part of 'it's still ongoing' was I not clear about? I am under the instructions of the attorney to NOT post specifics until everything is settled. It is NOT the scenario you posted above, and that's all I'm going to say.

  6. #66
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    http://guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html

    An interesting article that contrasts Swiss gun laws and culture with ours.

    Some of the points seem key in the effort to make it all work.
    Last edited by Clint; 03-27-12 at 09:13.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuietShootr View Post
    What part of 'it's still ongoing' was I not clear about? I am under the instructions of the attorney to NOT post specifics until everything is settled. It is NOT the scenario you posted above, and that's all I'm going to say.
    Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize you could be found guilty of a felony before being convicted of the crime you were charged with. And if it's not the scenario I posted it to be, quit making it sound like it is in your posts.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBecker 72 View Post
    Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realize you could be found guilty of a felony before being convicted of the crime you were charged with. And if it's not the scenario I posted it to be, quit making it sound like it is in your posts.
    Oh, **** you. The criminal part is over.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuietShootr View Post
    Oh, **** you. The criminal part is over.
    Damn man, relax. You posted something that you yourself can not substantiate, at least not at this time due to circumstances (if you are to be believed). I don't know what could be so super secret about the case that you can not reveal any information even though, as you put it, the criminal portion is over. But whatever man, it's not worth getting so fired up about. Take a deep breath, grab a cold one, and calm down.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuietShootr View Post
    Oh, **** you.

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