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Thread: M&P45c vs. HK45c range report

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    M&P45c vs. HK45c range report

    Recently my father picked up an M&P45c with thumb safety, and I made it to the range with him for the first time since he bought it. I have been interested in this gun for awhile because I prefer mid size handguns (G19, HK45c, P2000, etc) for use in a dual role as a home defense weapon and CCW.

    I've been carrying an HK45c since last February when they were released, but I've been looking for something to potentially replace it. I shoot it well, and it's been 100% reliable and feeds any type or shape of JHP without even hinting at slowing down. I do have a few complaints though that I'll rank minor/major:
    1. Major: The light rail does not fit any full size light out there. You can make a TLR-1/2 fit by moving the 1913 rail adapter further back in the light and duct taping it in place. This is less than ideal though, and I'd prefer being able to use the set screw with it. Also, while the TLR-1 is a good light, I'd also like to have the option of using other full size lights too.
    2. Minor: The mags are expensive and going up. Last rumor I heard said that H&K was increasing them to $60 each.
    3. Minor for now, could be major if something breaks: Parts are expensive. I looked into getting a spare recoil assembly and some other critical parts from H&K like a hammer, sear, and other internal springs, and the cost was going to be close to $200 if they even had it in stock. If they didn't, there was no telling how long it would be until they'd get them in from Germany.
    4. Minor: There is a serious lack of laser capability for H&K's. If you don't have one mounted to the rail there isn't an option for you. I would prefer to put CT grips on a carry gun, and the M&P makes this very easy because it doesn't add bulk to the grip like the glock version. I'm aware that there is no CT model for the M&P45c yet, but i'm sure it will happen eventually.

    When the M&P45c was announced, I thought that it could be a potential replacement here because it addresses each of the issues above. The only potential downside to the M&P is that it is not as "proven" as H&K USP based handguns. Also, I had no idea what the shootability of the M&P45c would be like compared to the H&K which is very accurate and has a very gentle recoil for a polymer .45.

    In overall build quality, I feel like the M&P series is as nice as H&K. The internal metal chassis that connects the 4 rails is nice, and the mags "eject" out of the gun the same way that the H&K mags do. This is something I really prefer to the sluggish movement of Glock mags. The mag release is easier for me to activate than the Glock mag release, and I can do it without adjusting my grip. The finish is nice, the machining on this one is very smooth with no weird tool marks on the inside of the slide. The palm swell grip is also something I really prefer, and I've added a hogue universal grip sleeve to the H&K45c to get this feel in that gun. It's nice to have that palm swell inherent in the M&P design.

    Yesterday my father and I headed out with about 400 rounds of .45 to work on breaking in the M&P and compare it to the H&K side by side. The M&P is a thumb safety model that is completely stock for now. He has an appointment at Burwell to have the trigger worked on and has a set of Warren tactical 2 dot's to put on it after the first range session if it doesn't have any issues. The H&K has Heinie straight 8 night sights with a 0.140" rear notch. I've found this notch width to be my preference on ~4" barrelled guns as I have a 0.156" notch on my G19 and think that it is too wide, and an older set with 0.125" width notch that was a little too hard to acquire the front sight quickly for follow up shots.

    In shooting, I found the recoil of the M&P to be a bit harsher than the H&K. The H&K45c is really in my opinion the softest shooting .45 that I've felt compared to a stock Colt XSE, a sig 220, a G30, an XD45, and now this M&P45c. Something very interesting though was that the muzzle did jump higher than the M&P45c despite the softer recoil. I am used to the way the H&K shoots though after carrying it and shooting with it for the last year, so I was slightly quicker on follow up shots, but the M&P had a lot of potential here. By the end of the ~200 or so rounds I shot through it, I was starting to move pretty quickly with it. I did not have any FTF or FTE's with either gun, but I did have an issue with the safety on the M&P45c. On a few mag changes, when I would drop the slide with the slide stop/release, I unintentionally engaged the safety. On the first occurrence it took me about 3-4 seconds to figure out what was wrong. The safety is very easy to activate or deactivate. Also, about the safeties, I am able to ride the safety on the HK45c and have never an issue decocking it under recoil like some people have, whether i'm shooting one handed or two handed. Also, it is a hard enough safety to activate and the placement of the slide stop levers are far enough out of the way that I have never had the issue of unintentially activating it when manipulating the slide stop.

    Accuracy on the M&P45c was also excellent. We started out shooting at paper and it took me a few mags to get adjusted to the trigger, but after that it was very accurate. Shooting 3" plates at 25 yards unsupported was pretty easy (as it is with the HK45c), so I don't think the M&P gives up much accuracy at all to the H&K. I would love to bench rest them both and measure the group size, but if it can I can hit the 3" plates from that far then I'm pretty happy with it.

    So after all that, my father has decided he wants to stick to 9mm and is going to sell the M&P. I am considering buying it from him because it does address all of my complaints with the HK45c, and it would serve as a great dual purpose home defense and CCW, especially with the extended 14 round mags in it in the nightstand. I would remove the thumb safety though. It is still a hard decision because the H&K has been absolutely flawless and has a great feel to it. Overall I think these are the two best polymer mid sized .45's available today though and it's tough to go wrong with either one.

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    Interesting. Just to be clear, you are talking about the compact M&P 45 not the mid-size right? Because I wasn't aware the 14 round S&W mag would fit in the compact. It's enough of a monstrosity in the mid or full size. The M&P Compact leaves my pinky finger dangling which puts it out of the running right away but I do like the mid-size M&P quite alot.
    I sure can't disagree with anything you said about the HK45c. It's a great pistol but HK really needs to do something about spare parts availability. I assume you are aware there are 10 round mags for the HK45c? They fit quite well. Personally I feel the Hk is a step up in materials and fit and finish quality over the M&P but not by much.

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    Thanks for the detailed write up givo08! I have the HK45c as well and am very interested in checking out the M&P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK45 View Post
    Interesting. Just to be clear, you are talking about the compact M&P 45 not the mid-size right? Because I wasn't aware the 14 round S&W mag would fit in the compact. It's enough of a monstrosity in the mid or full size. The M&P Compact leaves my pinky finger dangling which puts it out of the running right away but I do like the mid-size M&P quite alot.
    I sure can't disagree with anything you said about the HK45c. It's a great pistol but HK really needs to do something about spare parts availability. I assume you are aware there are 10 round mags for the HK45c? They fit quite well. Personally I feel the Hk is a step up in materials and fit and finish quality over the M&P but not by much.
    I am talking about the compact M&P45 and not the mid size. I have not tried one of the 14 round M&P Mags in the M&P45c but assumed it fit and just stuck out pretty far. I am also aware of the HK45 10 rounders fitting in the HK45c.

    As an aside, I am strongly considering trying out the P2000 in LEM as well. It solves issue #1 that I have with the HK45c light rail, as it can fit TLR-1's, X300's, and any other full size light without modification to the light. The P2k fits me more comfortably than any other handgun I've shot, and going to 9mm would be a plus for me from a recoil/follow up shot and ammo training cost perspective. I also like the H&K lever mag release slightly more than a button release, especially if I can get an oversized one made for the 45c and put it on the P2k. The P2k would also be a bit lighter to carry around than the M&P45c or HK45c. I would still have the issue of more expensive/harder to find parts, expensive mags, and no laser grip options, but I can live with these more easily than not having light mounting options.
    Last edited by givo08; 12-28-08 at 00:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK45 View Post
    Interesting. Just to be clear, you are talking about the compact M&P 45 not the mid-size right? Because I wasn't aware the 14 round S&W mag would fit in the compact. It's enough of a monstrosity in the mid or full size. The M&P Compact leaves my pinky finger dangling which puts it out of the running right away but I do like the mid-size M&P quite alot.
    I sure can't disagree with anything you said about the HK45c. It's a great pistol but HK really needs to do something about spare parts availability. I assume you are aware there are 10 round mags for the HK45c? They fit quite well. Personally I feel the Hk is a step up in materials and fit and finish quality over the M&P but not by much.
    It certainly fits....just sticks out a long way. Looks a bit ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palmguy View Post
    It certainly fits....just sticks out a long way. Looks a bit ridiculous.
    HK also makes a 10 round magazine for the HK45c and USPc .45 with extended baseplate so the magazine fits flush.

  7. #7
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    Overall build quality on the Smith is just as good as the HK....that's priceless So what are you HK owners paying for again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlelebowski View Post
    Overall build quality on the Smith is just as good as the HK....that's priceless So what are you HK owners paying for again?
    Well, that's his opinion...I disagree..I've got a HK USP 9mm and a M&P45 and I'm having trouble with the M&P..I had the sights changed by Grant to some Heinie straight 8's and I'm having a hard time hitting anything beyond about 15yds,(IMO this should be no problem with a .45 at this range)I've been shooting at pop cans, and once past about 15yds, hitting them is iffy. I've been using my loads which work very well in my Kimber, S.A. Milspec, Sig P-220, in the M&P I'm shooting low...I'm kinda dissapointed with it. I'm not sure if it's the sights or me or the M&P, Recoil is harsh as well,(load is 4.2gr titegroup, with a 200gr LSWC, OAL 1.250.and some 230gr LRN's with another load I can't recall right off the top of my head..) At this point I'm not very happy with it, and If I can't get it to shoot to point of aim beyond 15yds, it's going down the road like my XD45 did, and this will be another pistol I'll cross off and put on my don't buy list....it's not living up to the hype...At least my USP shoots well beyond 15yds, and usually hits what I point it at..
    Last edited by ralph; 12-28-08 at 13:47.

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    What part of the H&K build quality would you say is better than the S&W? I'm a big H&K fan because the newer guns (P30, P2k, HK45c, and HK45) fit me better than anything else on the market today, but I'm not a kool-aid drinker that thinks the high price tag = better quality. Both have steel guide rods, solid small parts, large extractors, good machining with no tool marks, similar finish (although I think the small parts finish on the H&K's is terrible as they lose the finish after minor handling), polished feed ramps, mags that eject forcefully from the gun, and steel sights from the factory. How else would you rate build quality?

    One of the areas that the H&K's excel in is very good mechanical accuracy. I found the M&P to be at least close to equal in this regard in the limited testing of hitting 3" plates at 25 yards.

    Again, I'm still up in the air on whether or not i'd buy this one off my father, because it is hard replacing a gun that I've gotten pretty good with and have proven out to be reliable over a lot of shooting, but the light rail issue has really gotten on my nerves recently with the only solutions being a duct taped 1913 adapter put in the wrong slot on a TLR-1 or an insight X2 that doesn't have the lumen output or battery life of a full size light.

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    So the pop psychology assumption is that HK $$ equal kool-aid drinkers? Good luck with that.
    Last edited by HK45; 12-28-08 at 16:20.

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