SCAR vs AR; A detailed look...

[Dirtyboy333]

The FN reps at SHOT Show this year stated they were going to release the Mk20 SSR for civi sales. No stated time frame or price though. Correct; 7.62 NATO.

Stephen

Thanks!!! Well at least now I know it's in the oven.

Yeah, I never thought about a SCAR SBR. Don't think I've ever seen a civi make one of those yet. Would be very interesting.

[SARETRob]

Quote from Army Chief (Moderator):
Acknowledged, but I think the larger point here is that your friend, no matter how competent, knowledgeable or well-placed, is only a cog in a much, much larger set of gears.

Hello everyone. I'm the friend gew98 mentioned and a cog (too funny). I don't wish to cause any conflict just share a bit of information that is common knowledge in my field. Allow me to introduce myself. I'm a gunsmith for the Department of Defense. Just an ol' retired soldier (6 combat tours, 21 years in). I've been a gunsmith for 25+ years, Type 7/class 3 kinda guy. I tend to collect more than I work at my shop as working for the DoD is what pays the bills ya know. Every month I'm at a different military base somewhere in the world. At the moment I'm at Ft Carson CO working with the SF Group here. I'm also part of the DoD SARET program. That stands for 'Small Arms Readiness and Evaluation Team'. I don't mind answering questions or helping the fellow gun community out. In this day and age we all need too as the current trend in civilian weapon laws is questionable to say the lest.

Now, as to the SCAR. Interesting design isn't it. Very innovative. I see them almost daily. School trained on them and all that stuff. Well, the SCAR program is dead. Yup it is. Being one of the poor souls that have to repair the SCARs for the military. Believe it. They are not buying anymore MK16s and the MK17s is questionable. And it wasn't the shooters that killed it. It was cost. It was a matter of money after all was said and done. The advantages of the SCAR did not justify the expense. Now, there are and will continue to be SCARs in the inventory and armsrooms here and there, and I'll have to fix them as needed. They are just not buying anymore.

Final note: It isn't and never was going to replace the M4. It's a SOCOM toy, not big Army. The M4 upgrades are still going to happen (heavy barrel, full auto, ambi-selector, etc etc). Which still has nothing to do with the current trails for a replacement for it. As to the chart/link posted above. That is real. Outdated and old but real. Things change. Often. Very Often. We are at war and with around a decade of experience to draw on, small arm changes to about every weapon system we have are constant. Name a weapon we have and I can name a change this war has brought on. Example: M249. In peace time it seemed an ok gun. Long years at war have found many weakness to it. There are about dozen changes I can think of off hand that have been made or are being made to that gun now. I hate being long winded but I hope this helped. Feel free to leave me a message or question and I'll try to get back to ya. Ya'll take care.

[Jaws]

Hello Rob. Thanks for your imput.

Your post is actually quite diferent from what gew98 posted.

gew98 posted this:

"I understand that the SCAR inuse in places like A'stan just does not stand up in durability."


You wrote:

"....And it wasn't the shooters that killed it. It was cost. It was a matter of money after all was said and done."


gev98 made it sound like the SCAR is worse than other stuf available and the it is the reliability isues that were the deciding factor. Your post paints a different picture.

Care to comment on that?

Thanks.

[SARETRob]

Gladly reply to anything but always remember I'm a gunsmith not a shooter. I'm happily retired form the military. As to the SCAR, it, like any gun, will fail if pushed hard enough. And it was. And it did. Like I posted above, the benifits of the system did not justify the cost.

[abn45bravo]

Quote from Army Chief (Moderator):
Acknowledged, but I think the larger point here is that your friend, no matter how competent, knowledgeable or well-placed, is only a cog in a much, much larger set of gears.

Hello everyone. I'm the friend gew98 mentioned and a cog (too funny). I don't wish to cause any conflict just share a bit of information that is common knowledge in my field. Allow me to introduce myself. I'm a gunsmith for the Department of Defense. Just an ol' retired soldier (6 combat tours, 21 years in). I've been a gunsmith for 25+ years, Type 7/class 3 kinda guy. I tend to collect more than I work at my shop as working for the DoD is what pays the bills ya know. Every month I'm at a different military base somewhere in the world. At the moment I'm at Ft Carson CO working with the SF Group here. I'm also part of the DoD SARET program. That stands for 'Small Arms Readiness and Evaluation Team'. I don't mind answering questions or helping the fellow gun community out. In this day and age we all need too as the current trend in civilian weapon laws is questionable to say the lest.

Now, as to the SCAR. Interesting design isn't it. Very innovative. I see them almost daily. School trained on them and all that stuff. Well, the SCAR program is dead. Yup it is. Being one of the poor souls that have to repair the SCARs for the military. Believe it. They are not buying anymore MK16s and the MK17s is questionable. And it wasn't the shooters that killed it. It was cost. It was a matter of money after all was said and done. The advantages of the SCAR did not justify the expense. Now, there are and will continue to be SCARs in the inventory and armsrooms here and there, and I'll have to fix them as needed. They are just not buying anymore.

Final note: It isn't and never was going to replace the M4. It's a SOCOM toy, not big Army. The M4 upgrades are still going to happen (heavy barrel, full auto, ambi-selector, etc etc). Which still has nothing to do with the current trails for a replacement for it. As to the chart/link posted above. That is real. Outdated and old but real. Things change. Often. Very Often. We are at war and with around a decade of experience to draw on, small arm changes to about every weapon system we have are constant. Name a weapon we have and I can name a change this war has brought on. Example: M249. In peace time it seemed an ok gun. Long years at war have found many weakness to it. There are about dozen changes I can think of off hand that have been made or are being made to that gun now. I hate being long winded but I hope this helped. Feel free to leave me a message or question and I'll try to get back to ya. Ya'll take care.

I am not trying to call you out or anything but SARET is not allowed to touch SOCOM guns. We have other people for that. Also SCAR is not dead so far only the light is, we have plenty of new heavy's.

[SARETRob]

Call me out any way you wish. That's funny. Meaningless though as to the subject of discussion. As I stated the 5.56 version is no longer purchased. The 7.62 contract is going away. As to the MK20, we'll see. Looks good but who knows. And yes, SARET mostly does the normal pee shooters. Crain has the main contract for the SOF weapons. We still inspect them when we are in town as needed.

[abn45bravo]

90% the guys i work with love the scar both heavy and light. I will be getting a light and maybe a heavy when I am state side again.

Saretrob Well SARET does not touch our guns when they come to Ft Campbell, you guys dont even have parts for them or gauges.

[SARETRob]

Interesting. I was just at Ft Campbell. And I did "touch them" along with Crain. We were in the same building doing your refit. I'll be back there again late July, if your back, stop by and say "hi". Loveing them has nothing to do with the contract for them. Also, if your soon to ETS, we hire ex-45B (90 somethings now). We just have to send you to school first.

[gew98]

I am not trying to call you out or anything but SARET is not allowed to touch SOCOM guns. We have other people for that. Also SCAR is not dead so far only the light is, we have plenty of new heavy's.

Wow...tough crowd. Would you expand on the "not allowed".

[SARETRob]

The 'not allowed' comes from, "The SCAR and all other new weapons that are under warrenty from the manufactuer contract out for the primary repair of them." Thats why I had to go to the SCAR Maintenance Course given at SOCOM Ft Bragg a few years ago. Thats where I got my little ol' SCAR tool bag and gages. And as to Crane, some are kept in-house. Does that answer your question?