Bear defense pistols practical shooting test

[coltm4223]

When I lived up in King Salmon, AK me and my friends used to practice shooting bowling pins that the bowling alley threw away and shoot them with 44 mags. After some practice with man on man shoot offs (induced stress) we got pretty good. Back then I sold off my 1911 and bought a Ruger Redhawk cause back in 1986 everyone in AK had to have a 44! Don't live up there anymore but I do occasional field work with a wildlife biologist in Northern New Mexico and carry a Vang Comp 870 in the truck and a S&W Model 58, 41 magnum stoked with 6 Grizzly Cartridge Co. 265 gr moving at 1400 fps. Getting expensive practicing with those, I really need to start reloading

[BuzzinSATX]

If you are not going to rely on a warning shot or psychological body shot stop, you need to be able to penetrate the bear's skull and reach the brain, to reliably stop a bear attack with a handgun. It really becomes pass/fail, in your bullet is able to penetrate or not. A secondary but also important consideration, is how quickly can you place accurate shots, as Pat just tested, to give yourself the most chances of reaching the brain.

We tend to focus on caliber and velocity, but bullet construction is very important. One problem, is hard cast bullets, especially with a wide meplat, tend not to be as reliable in semi auto pistols, as FMJ bullets with more streamlined profiles. So when people say X caliber is sufficient, it assumes use of a properly constructed bullet. I would rather have a 9mm with an Underwood Lehigh penetrator bullet, or if it functioned reliably the Buffalo Bore 147 hard cast load, than a 10mm with a soft JHP.

GJM makes a couple key points here.

First, not all bear/cougar/moose/dog attacks begin with a flat out charge....sometimes, you have time to try warning the critter with yelling, waving arms, and maybe a shot or two into the ground. In this case, better to have more than 5-6 rounds...in case things get ugly.

Second, penetration is truly key. Six or eight deep penetrating 9MM rounds, as proven on multiple occasions, can bring down pretty much most animals on this continent.

Sure, bigger is better, all things equal...but all things are rarely equal in the real world. I've read a lot about this, and concluded I'm gonna choose a gun I'm good with for multiple consecutive shots and a bullet that can carry deep through hide and bone.

You can kill a bear with one shot through the skull with either a 9MM or a .44, but like the OP pointed out earlier, his experiments were about the need to shoot several rounds to get your desired affect...to stop the threat.




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[Arik]

https://www.americanhunter.org/artic...th-9mm-pistol/

Guide used a 9mm single stack 7 round mag and Buffalo Bore ammo.

"My pistol was loaded with*Buffalo Bore 9mm +P Outdoorsman*147-grain FN hard-cast loads that have a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps. I had previously tested, compared and proven such loads with my .357 and .44 mags., and I was convinced they would work."

"We recovered 4 of the bullets and I took a photo of the back of the bear after the hide was removed that shows an entry on one side of the back and the tip of the bullet on the off side ..."


Buffalo Bore's website link to that ammo with story and pictures of the bullet entrance/exit
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=388

From 10 ft away I'm guessing it had something around 350ft-lbs of energy out of that little gun.

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[G woody]

Phil is an "old war horse" and was much calmer than many of us would be in that situation !!

[WillBrink]

https://www.americanhunter.org/artic...th-9mm-pistol/

Guide used a 9mm single stack 7 round mag and Buffalo Bore ammo.

"My pistol was loaded with*Buffalo Bore 9mm +P Outdoorsman*147-grain FN hard-cast loads that have a muzzle velocity of 1100 fps. I had previously tested, compared and proven such loads with my .357 and .44 mags., and I was convinced they would work."

"We recovered 4 of the bullets and I took a photo of the back of the bear after the hide was removed that shows an entry on one side of the back and the tip of the bullet on the off side ..."

To my mind, this story illustrates why we don't recommend a .22 for SD with two legged varmints, the goal is not to kill, it's to stop the threat. .22 kills people all the time, after they beat you to death with your own empty gun and bleed out a mile down the road. Had that bear decided to attack the person he was trying to protect or him, that bear would have had plenty of time to do serious damage. That the bear decided to run and dropped dead after he ran off, does not give me confidence at all. I'm not a bear expert and perhaps the common response of a bear when shot is to run off from the pain. Had the bear turned toward the attacker and gone on the offense and charged, I think that would have been a very different story. I know a dude who shot a large wild bore with a handgun (i forget caliber), and it spun and came right for him and gored him through the calf, then fell over dead. Me, still skeptical, but at the same time to OP point, 6 rnd of hard cast 9mm still better than missing with a 454 due to recoil, etc.

I'm still leaning toward OPs conclusion 10mm may the sweet spot between bullet weight, shots on target, capacity, recoil, etc. unless as he points out, someone has sufficient skills with a big bore wheel gun. I don't.

[Arik]

I'm in no way trying to say that a 9 is plenty. Just when I read this topic it reminded me of that story and seeing as no one posted it I decided to

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[OttoLoader]

I recommend selecting the handgun that you can consistently make very accurate hits with. The bear target shows the inverted triangle for the head on target and is good because bear heads are very flat and the skull does not protrude very much above the eyes. So accuracy shot placement as a must. Personally I can shoot much more accurately with S&W686 and 29 than most auto loaders. So as I already have a 686 if in black bear country I would use hard cast 158 gr or 180 gr. Cor Bon used to make 200 grn and I would use that if available. If in brown bear country I would get a 29 or 629. Long gun I would use my old standby hunting gun a Remington 870 with breneke slugs.
Summary use what you shoot the best with be it a semi auto or a revolver.

[skorittnig]

i'm going to follow this closely as I've considered the G20 in the recent past as a backpacking gun in bear country. I am traditionally a wheel gun guy, but the ability to carry such a high volume of 10mm in comparison to 5 or 6 .44 mag. rounds is appealing.

[user]

I carry my Glock 10mm with buffalo bore hardcast flat points when I hunt in bear country in Alaska. We do multi day float plane drop off hunts. Pretty remote. Always feel good with the Glock as I can shoot it quick and accurately....

[G woody]

I carry my Glock 10mm with buffalo bore hardcast flat points when I hunt in bear country in Alaska. We do multi day float plane drop off hunts. Pretty remote. Always feel good with the Glock as I can shoot it quick and accurately....

Just curious, do you guys have a Sat. phone with you on these hunts ?? I agree with your choice of a sidearm.