Loaded for Bear - Is 10mm Sufficient?

[sac]

Go with a 45colt you can load it hotter with heavier bullets and lower pressure then a 44 mag.
Go to John Leinbaugh's web site and read debunking the 45 colt myth.

[soulezoo]

John Linebaugh has been hotrodding .45's for decades now. Know's his stuff.

[AMT7]

No. This debate, if it can accurately be termed one, rears its head time and time again. Simply put it comes down to energy, and the 10mm is barely a 357 Magnum in terms of ft. lbs. (500-700 ft. lbs.). Lately the discussion of the efficacy and merit of the 10mm as protection for those of us in Grizzly country came up yet again among some colleagues. Several of us who shoot often and are more versed in ballistics and firearms, chose to carry 44 magnums or greater (460, 454, and 500) - whereas several of our associates who shoot the least if ever (one has never fired his G20), all chose the G20 in 10mm for, "lightweight", "affordability", "rapid followup shots", among other statements. These men are all skilled bow-hunters, outdoors-man, however have little familiarity with firearms in general specifically pistol craft - as a few of them are skilled basic hunting riflemen. To them a bullet is a bullet, a gun a gun, if it goes bang and throws lead - well than it worked. They simply do not pay attention to energy, penetration, or any of the factors related to those facets of the conversation.

What is your "bear load" hand gun? (Most of us are aware a shotgun or heavy hitting rifle is superior).

And how much time do you spend in Grizzly country a year?

I wrote them this as a response recently. To a few of my brothers:

http://dennyducet.blogspot.com/2016/...-for-bear.html

Ummm, not sure where you getting data but if just going with wiki the liberal and inconsistient data sources or commonly advertised stuff the "... to 700ft lbs" is not accurate as DT or Double Tap alone offers early all above 700 ft lbs energy cartridges with exception of two 200gr and 220gr weights. Not gonna debate intracies any further. Just know (others may have mentioned also) there are at least 3 other mfg'rs for some time and most recent SIG) making these 10mm cartridges perform far better than most infer who do not shoot them or not as educated. Yes, its no 454 casull but every handgun cartridge is a compromise. Use the most powerful tool your most accurate and comfortable with weilding. I reload my own for superior 2" MOA @ 100yds out of a short bbl "4"" EAA / Tanfoglio Witness Compact Carry Poly model using superfast Alliant e3 but extremely careful with heaver bullets as pressure curves spike almost irrationally (non linear) doing this only with lighter 159'sh gain projectiles so far. Not published any data loaded any heavier projectiles yet but physics math says it is not a good idea with fast shotgun powders suitable for only shortest barrels. When, if ever I am able to snag a proper 6" bbl will load work up some heavier loads. Wolff and other barrel aftermarket suppliers have not made another production run yet I know of for the large frame compact carry model and the Florida EAA importer last balked at agreeing on application. Let me know if anyone hears about 6" bbl's for this exact model not the fill size models as they are plentiful. Or there may be a gunsmiths secret have not been able to dredge up of what of their other models can be made to work fairly easily. Here is the only bbl I can find in stock a EAA http://eaacorp.com/gun_accessories/i...s/barrels.html
6" Match Grade Barrel - 10MM #302335
Availability: In stock
Product code: 9302335
$191.00
But last time I emailed the company said it would not work. Still not completely convinced it was accurate in my use context but mostly interested in exactly why. Am assuming this is a consumer oriented statement liability padded, and not a gunsmithing perspective.

[soulezoo]

I am using a lone wolf 6" bbl for my g20. A little under 1400 fps with 180 gr. Gold Dots. Using AA#9 in Starline brass and cci magnum primers. That is close to 800 ftlbs.

Accuracy is not 2" @ 100 yards for sure, but off hand I can keep most shots on a pie plate.

[Ryno12]

I am using a lone wolf 6" bbl for my g20. A little under 1400 fps with 180 gr. Gold Dots. Using AA#9 in Starline brass and cci magnum primers. That is close to 800 ftlbs.

Accuracy is not 2" @ 100 yards for sure, but off hand I can keep most shots on a pie plate.

Off the subject but, how do you like your Lone Wolf barrel? I've got a 6" Storm Lake that I use but I'm looking for a threaded 6" barrel for suppressor use & was leaning towards a LW.
I haven't shown my G20 any lovin' lately & I want to get back to wringing it's neck.

[soulezoo]

Off the subject but, how do you like your Lone Wolf barrel? I've got a 6" Storm Lake that I use but I'm looking for a threaded 6" barrel for suppressor use & was leaning towards a LW.
I haven't shown my G20 any lovin' lately & I want to get back to wringing it's neck.

Mine is threaded as well. I like it well enough. It's a good barrel for the price. ($95 for mine) You won't confuse it with a barrel costing twice as much but it's not hi point either. Fit is good and shoots well. Overall a good value for the price.

[Ryno12]

Mine is threaded as well. I like it well enough. It's a good barrel for the price. ($95 for mine) You won't confuse it with a barrel costing twice as much but it's not hi point either. Fit is good and shoots well. Overall a good value for the price.

Ok thanks. Was it a complete drop in or did you have to tweak on it a bit?

[TacMedic556]

Whether it's 700, 800 even 900 ft/lbs out of the 10mm I do not trust or with to carry the 10mm and know many that feel the same while in Grizzly country. I consider the 44 mag with a 300+ grain projectile wit 1150-1250 ft/lbs at the minimum. I spent September this year all the way to November 27th in the Mountains, immersed in Grizzly habitat. We harvested over 12 animals among the hunting parties and we removed 4 elk from Grizzly areas, one of them over two days, returning to a kill site. Walking into a previous kill site 24 hours after butchering and quartering an elk makes one want the biggest gun they can carry. I carried my 629 with a 6" barrel for 3 months and I cannot even tell it is there.

I work with a guy who's cousin was in a documented encounter up in the YAAK river area with a Sow Grizzly and two cubs. He emptied a magazine with a Glock 10mm - the bears luckily ran off. It is unknown if the bears were hit at all and FWP agents never found a dead or wounded bear anywhere in the area, or sign of one. The individual in this case, since has chosen a larger pistol to carry.

This thread was not started as a pissing match or even a "my guns better than your gun" thread. It was started as a personal opinion of whether or not the 10mm cartridge is sufficient for charging dangerous game that weighs 450-700 lbs.

[soulezoo]

Ok thanks. Was it a complete drop in or did you have to tweak on it a bit?

Straight drop in, perfect fit.

[shrike]

What bear? An average blackie of 130-220 lbs? Good bullets and good aim, a 10 mm will do probably.
A 350lbs and up Grizzly I would not. Although in theory a good hard bullet in the brain will do.
For bigger bears just go straight to the 44 mag or souped up 45 cal with hard cast bullets.
They will kill a big bear but not sure if it will stop a charge, unless hit in the brain.
Best always carry a rifle. In the late 1970's or early 80's, I test fired 12 ga foster type slugs into a 800 lbs dead polar bear's shoulder from 6-10 feet away. The Remington or Winchester slugs flattened like silver dollars on the shoulder blade. 12 ga. SSG from 10 feet just made it through the hide and blubber again no penetration into the chest cavity. I would not hesitate using it on the average blackie, but NOT on big bears.
A rifle is needed .