The Official Why My DPMS, Del-Ton, Oly Arms, Etc. Is Better Than Anything Else Thread

**C4IGrant** · 01-12-11, 11:28

This Summer I got into car detailing in a big way. I knew very little about the subject so I went to some professional car detailing forums. I read and I read and than I read some more. Then after consuming vast amounts of data, I bought my equipment. I then used said equipment and products on my cars. Turned out pretty well, but I did have some questions and so I posted on said forum. The guys that responded make their living by detailing $100,000 dollar cars. I listened to what they had to say and thanked them for their time.

I realized that just because I owned all the same gear as them, that I didn't know 1/10th of what they knew. I didn't try and tell the folks that do it for a living that they were wrong, or didn't know what they were talking about. I just listened.

I wonder why this type of stuff rarely happens on gun forums?

C4

**tgace** · 01-12-11, 11:31

Originally Posted by THCDDM4

You weirdos with your "not a cop or soldier; so I don't need a weapon that has a highger chance of performing and saving my life if I should need it to" BS; are just effing nuts to me.

I don't understand this logic whatsoever? Only Soldiers and Police need to have proper tools for defending lives? Thats just twilight zone crazy to me.

Ease down. My point being that a soldier may be putting many more rounds through his weapon overall or in a particular engagement vs a. "average homeowner" who may want an AR for home defense. Since the point was made that this is mostly about reliability over a certain number of rounds vs a weapon simply just not working at any random moment. Saying that this persons S&W is only useful for or should be used for "plinking" is hyperbole IMO.

If this person is going to be a serious trainer and shoot up a few K of ammo a year? Different story.

**jklaughrey** · 01-12-11, 11:32

Gun=Phallic appendage?

Dick measuring syndrome?

Grant, what is your opinion.

**C4IGrant** · 01-12-11, 11:34

Originally Posted by tgace

Ease down. My point being that a soldier may be putting many more rounds through his weapon overall or in a particular engagement vs a homeowner. Since the point was made that this is mostly about reliability over a certain number of rounds vs a weapon simply just not working at any random moment.

The problem with this logic is that you simply don't know how many rounds that is. 5? 10? 100? 1,000? 5,000? Who knows!

The part that you are forgetting is that PRIOR to said shoot out with said bad guy, you most likely have fired the weapon many times.

For 4,575 rounds the gun ran great. On the 4,576th round, the bolt snapped in half.

See the point?

C4

**THCDDM4** · 01-12-11, 11:44

Originally Posted by tgace

Ease down. My point being that a soldier may be putting many more rounds through his weapon overall or in a particular engagement vs a. "average homeowner" who may want an AR for home defense. Since the point was made that this is mostly about reliability over a certain number of rounds vs a weapon simply just not working at any random moment.

I gottcha; wasn't trying to be too overbearing.

I just don't like the separation in importance of gear of civvilians VS. LEO/Mil.

At any moment, any place in the world can turn into a war zone; regardless of if you are civvy/LEO/MIL; it would be better to have the most reliable best built weapon one could possibly find.

Affording that weapon is a different story. I have gotten very imaginative in the past on how I would save money to buy things out of my price range. It takes more time than we are usually wanting to wait, but disclipline is a good thing to practice; and good things are worth wating for.

There are tens of thousands of ways to make supplementary income if one is willing and able to do so.

One in particular I always fall back on when I need some extra $$$; is salvaging materials from construction dumpsters. THey throw out so much copper wire, partial 2X4's, cans of paint, bolts of carpet, screws, nuts bolts, nails, plywood, aluminum framing members, etc.

I have made literally thousands of free dollars from just sifting through crap and finding stuff to sell right back to the contractors or recycle for cash. (I actually just built a new rifle from cash I got from collecting lead from ranges and recycling it/selling to local bullet casters. Rifle cost=Man hours collecting and cleaning lead. I got my friends and family that go shooting with me to trade their time collecting lead, for time with my rifles and my ammo. Not a bad deal.)

Getting an extra $100.00-$300.00 to buy a DD/BCM/Colt over a BM/RRA/OLY is very easy, and takes just a bit of forethought, time and effort.

With how rifles are priced these days; the old excuse of: "I couldn't afford a tier 1 rifle" is obsolete, the only excuse now is "I didn't properly do my research and bought a lesser quality rifle for the same price as I could have gotten a better one for".

**C4IGrant** · 01-12-11, 11:46

Originally Posted by jklaughrey

Gun=Phallic appendage?

Dick measuring syndrome?

Grant, what is your opinion.

Most men believe that since GOD blessed them with a Penis, they know how to do three things well (from birth).

These are:

1. Drive.
2. Screw.
3. Shoot.

The fact is that none of us do any of them well without practice. We also don't know what we don't know about these three things.

At a certain point, we achieve light bulb moments and realize that we have a long way to go before we master one of these subjects.

For instance, my first couple room clearing events didn't go so well (hostage killed). My problem was that I was attempting to go faster than I could handle and thusly made poor decisions. I spent time thinking about the subject and learning what I didn't know. I also asked a lot of questions from professional shooters and applied their teachings.

The other reason for this "dick measuring contest" is the sense of security that the errornet provides. I have seen people say things to and about people that they would NEVER say to that person face to face.

There was a thread on here last year where a guy was making fun of someone that was over weight (class AAR with pics). The guy was 6'4 280-300 and into MMA/Boxing. You would never stand in front of him and call him a "fat bastard."

C4

**tgace** · 01-12-11, 12:03

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

The problem with this logic is that you simply don't know how many rounds that is. 5? 10? 100? 1,000? 5,000? Who knows!

The part that you are forgetting is that PRIOR to said shoot out with said bad guy, you most likely have fired the weapon many times.

For 4,575 rounds the gun ran great. On the 4,576th round, the bolt snapped in half.

See the point?

C4

Back to my climbing gear analogy. If your life is depending on it you inspect it frequently, you replace stuff as needed, you know what it's capabilities are and you will be fine.

If I was going to try El Cap would I pack out with the same stuff as I had for the Adirondacks? No. Would I brag that I could summit Cap with my "hobby climber gear"? and that my stuff was "as good as or better than" the better quality stuff? No. But it worked just fine and I trusted my life with it within the parameters I was climbing in.

Just to be clear, I have no "problem" with the rankings you guys have put together here. Not all rifles are created equal. Agreed. But I think that some of the "I wouldn't trust my life to that low tier gun" is a bit of an overstatement at times depending on who you are talking about. Hell my dept SWAT team uses...gasp...Bushmasters! Horrors!

YMMV.

**C4IGrant** · 01-12-11, 12:06

Originally Posted by tgace

Back to my climbing gear analogy. If your life is depending on it you inspect it frequently, you replace stuff as needed, you know what it's capabilities are and you will be fine.

If I was going to try El Cap would I pack out with the same stuff as I had for the Adirondacks? No. Would I brag that I could summit Cap with my "hobby climber gear"? and that my stuff was "as good as or better than" the better quality stuff? No. But it worked just fine and I trusted my life with it within the parameters I was climbing in.

Just to be clear, I have no "problem" with the rankings you guys have put together here. Not all rifles are created equal. Agreed. But I think that some of the "I wouldn't trust my life to that low tier gun" is a bit of an overstatement at times depending on who you are talking about.

YMMV.

A fall is a fall in my book. You will be just as dead falling from a cliff in the Adirondacks as you would falling off a cliff on a larger mountain.

A gun fight is a gun fight. No matter if you wear a uniform or not.

C4