Recently purchased SGL-21, lots of questions concerning gear selection

[gillian_seed]

Hello all, a few months back I came to this forum seeking advise on 5.56 AKs. In the end everyone convinced me that a better caliber to start with on the AK platform was 7.62 and long story short, I bought a SGL-21 from Bud's. Now I come before you again with yet another host of questions, specifically related to home defense and training. They revolve around sling selection, magazine carriers, and flash suppressors.

Question One: I have been doing a lot of research on sling selection and I think I’m going to go with a Vickers VCAS sling, but what mounting methods should I use (it’s my understanding that the sling doesn’t come with mounting hardware to keep price down and to allow the user to decide what he/she wants)? The universal wire loop looks very versatile and appealing to me, what do you guys think? Is there some other great sling I'm missing?

Question Two: I’ve also done my homework on AK chest rigs, and have decided to get an AK attack rack (either V1 or V2 not sure which yet), but I don’t have enough money to drop on one quite yet. In the meantime I was surfing centerfire systems and came across this: http://centerfiresystems.com/POU-AKA-CHEST.aspx Now, it’s only 10 dollars, so I’m leery. Does anyone have experience with this magazine carrier? It is actual military surplus or is it airsoft crap? I’m going to get the attack rack eventually so should I just hold out and not use my money (I know it’s only 10 dollars, but I’d rather not have a useless piece of gear leftover once I upgrade and I'd like to have something to hold me over, reloading from the pocket sucks). Again, am I missing anything? Is there another magazine carrying system that works well?

Question Three: This final question is where I need the most help from you guys. I absolutely love the 74 style brake that came on my SGL21, but it has some side blast and I like to be courteous to my fellow shooters, moreover this gun is used for home defense so I would like to reduce flash as much as possible. So what type of flash suppressors are you guys running on your AK’s with 24mm right hand threads? I came across this birdcage style suppressor on CNCWarrior’s website and it looks appealing, http://www.cncwarrior.com/shop/22439...m-a2-birdcage/ does anyone know if they make quality products? Would a Krink style flash suppressor like this K-Var unit work better? http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.ph...cat=289&page=1

Well, that’s all my questions so far. I want to thank everyone in advance for reading the book I just wrote and taking the time to respond, this website is a wealth of information and I look forward to what everyone has to say.

[1911-A1]

If you're into warbelts or just want some pouches for a vest or plate carrier, HSGI tacos are designed to fit 5.56 AR mags, 7.62/5.45 AK mags and .308 mags of various types. They're an excellent option if you have or plan to get multiple rifle platforms. I'm using them now, and they're pretty awesome. The plastic tensioner on the sides allows for fast AK mag draws because the lock tab doesn't catch on the lip of the pouch like it does on others.

[gillian_seed]

Wow, I've never heard of the TACO before. They look great (not to mention I love the name)! I think I might buy some, where did you get yours, online?

[BaronFitz]

I'll put my two cents in.

1. Get the VCAS. Get the padded one. It's worth it. The BFG UWL works pretty well on my SCAR 17 rear sling mount. I assume you're inquiring about using it on the stock front sling mount. If you're going to use it on the rear, the metal on the UWL itself (not the wire) will eat your buttstock a bit, so I switched to just looping the sling through the rear buttstock loop on my SLR-106F. If you get the UWL, get the one with the QD cups. It's not that much more expensive, and you have more flexibility. --->UWL with QD ETA: I'm running Ultimak upper and lower tri-rail systems on both my AKs, since they came with it. It's an awfully expensive way to enable putting a QD mount on the side of the forearm closest to my magwell, but that's how I like it.

2. The HSGI Taco system works well for me. That said, they're a cast iron PITA to put on to a molle belt or rig. I have an attack rack V1, and it worked well for me in a Vickers AK course. The only downside is that someone decided to put the buckles right where the stock nestles into your shoulder, so I covered them with seatbelt pads from my local Advance Auto. The V2 may have fixed this.

No comment on the flash suppressor issue...my AKs are in 5.56 and 5.45, and I've stayed with the 74 style brake.

[jumpthestack]

I use the padded VCAS sling, attached at the rear to the sling swivel on the left side of the stock, and at the front via a MASH hook hooked on the mount point near the front of the hand guard on the left side.

I got the MASH hook from Blue Force Gear.

I use HSGI Tacos on a VTAC Brokos belt. I think a war belt is the way to go for a civilian who doesn't need to carry that many mags. Having stuff on your chest is cumbersome and can catch on your sling, and is uncomfortable in prone.

Re: the flash suppressor, I have no experience with it firsthand, but check out the Manticore Nightshroud. I do have the Manticore Nightbrake and am happy with it.
http://www.manticorearms.com/NightSh...ORX-MA-610.htm

[CumbiaDude]

For the VCAS attachment, you can use the D-ring and snap hook from a standard AK sling, like so.

I don't know about that specific chest rig, but I just made a copy of the Chinese/Russian bra out of a spare pillow that was gonna be thrown away. Hasn't worn away yet, so I imagine the item you linked to will surely survive until you get the attack rack, barring the need to crawl across razor wire

For flash hiders, I don't have one. I'll just second the recommendation for the Manticore Arms piece. It seems to be good (I heard so on the internet )

FYI, Rat Worx has it in stock.

[xcibes]

I have a Vicker's Sling on mine. What I did was to cut the front metal part of an old AK sling and use the ring and snap clip on my VCAS.



As to the muzzle brake, I would keep it. If you feel you must replace it, I would go with a four-slot Bulgarian flashider. They also have a US-made copy which is identical.

This is the FH I would use IF I felt inclined to replace my muzzle brake.



ETA: Guess somebody beat me to it....exactly like Tim's SLR106

[96 SS]

One option for chest rigs or other carriers is UW Gear. I got to check out some of their latest stuff and was very impressed. I really dislike most chest rigs, but this one sang to me.

ETA: I also run a VCAS with the front D-ring cut from a surplus sling. I really like it.

[K Town]

For some odd reason I never see anyone just mount their sling to an AK straight up.







I even managed to pull this off with my VCAS before I switch to the VTAC, (High Speed Low Drag Bro Pro +10 Accuracy tip: Needle nose pliers are a must to get the VCAS to fit through the loop).



For the stock there wasn't much I could really do so for now I just settled for the original sling placement.





The main reason I switched from the VCAS to the VTAC was the amount of quick adjustment between the two slings. The VCAS' adjustment worked as advertised but I constantly found myself wanting either more slack or a tighter fit. The VTAC gives me the amount of adjustment I was looking for ranging from pressed against my chest to hanging down at my knee caps.

Here are the two slings at their tightest quick adjust (Note how the VTAC is adjusted for current use and is still tighter than the VCAS with all possible adjustment taken up).



And here are the two at their largest quick adjustment.



The one thing I do miss about the VCAS sling is the build quality. Mr. Vickers and Blue Force Gear weren't kidding around when they brought the VCAS to market, the thing is build like a tank.

[hf0311]

Magpul MS2 that i run as a 2 point adjustable only, 550 cord on the bow.
the Magpul isn't the best sling, right now it is mounted on my extra AK, the OSOE 2 point adjustable bungie sling on the other hand is a great sling, light weight and very comfortable, it's my favorite sling for AK's.
SOE just use the what came with the gun on front
550 on the butt stock

If you are unhappy with your current muzzle break then i would suggest the Battle Comp AKBC, but I doubt it would be worth the money for you, for the cost of the break you could get a OSOE AK Micro Rig and be alot further ahead in my opinion.

[gillian_seed]

Cannibalizing the D ring and hook from a surplus sling looks like a great idea, I might end up doing that instead, but I must admit that the flexibility of the UWL is very appealing.

96 SS: That UW gear rig looks great! And it's well priced, I'm going to have to seriously consider it instead of the attack rack, or just sliding some TACO's on a battle belt.

hf0311: I actually did look at the micro rig, it looks great but what put me off was the double magazine pouches. They don't appear to have a divider, so I'm concerned about retention. If I only draw one magazine from a pouch I don't want the renaming mag to be bouncing around until I get the opportunity to close the Velcro strap. And will the lack of space between the mags make getting a good hold on the mag before a reload difficult? Or am I just over-thinking this?

At any rate I want to deeply thank everyone for all the excellent advice so far (and even taking the time to post pictures), I have a lot of things to think about and have been able to research tons of new gear because of your input. Please, keep the information coming!

[hf0311]

Originally Posted by gillian_seed

hf0311: I actually did look at the micro rig, it looks great but what put me off was the double magazine pouches. They don't appear to have a divider, so I'm concerned about retention. If I only draw one magazine from a pouch I don't want the renaming mag to be bouncing around until I get the opportunity to close the Velcro strap. And will the lack of space between the mags make getting a good hold on the mag before a reload difficult? Or am I just over-thinking this?

Honestly yes you are over thinking it, the pouches have enough room that you will be able to grab the mags with no problem and the top of the pouches weigh enough that typically they will fall back down and reseal themselves when you do a reload....Another thing to think of is this, you say it's a home defense gun, and while chest rigs are cool and good to have, you may be better off spending a fair amount of time practicing doing your reload from a pocket or even off a table or something, chances are if your house is invaded you wont have a chance to put shoes on let alone get kitted up for war. So while your waiting to save the money for the chest rig/load out of your choice maybe just use the back pocket of your levi's as a mag holster it's realistic hd training and cheap.

[Dave_M]

1) I recommend an Ares sling. VTAC and VCAS work as well but the Huskey is my #1
2) Standard rear sling spot on an AK sucks ass. I'd move it or install a QD socket here:


(Yes, that's for a right-handed shooter) and run the sling over the top.

[K Town]

Originally Posted by Dave_M

2) Standard rear sling spot on an AK sucks ass. I'd move it or install a QD socket here:


(Yes, that's for a right-handed shooter) and run the sling over the top.

I've been contemplating that exact sling socket placement for months now. The 74 style stock placement isn't the end of the world since the sling moves enough on the loop to clear the pad but having a QD plug on the right side would be killer (Loved it on a v2 SOPmod stock). I know there are threads on people doing clean and flush QD mount installs on MOE handguards but is there any way to pull that off on an AK stock?

[Bob Ghengis Khan]

I've been thinking of the same setup for a few months as well, with one of these (it would have to be a little higher than in the picture, because of the backing):
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin...status=&title=

Never got around to ordering one. I get annoyed paying shipping for small items, and the stock adapter I have now is decent enough (got one off gunbroker for a decent price):
http://www.vikingtactics.com/slingacc_buttstock.html

I use a hook that I cut off of an old seabag for the front attachment.

[Dave_M]

Originally Posted by K Town

t is there any way to pull that off on an AK stock?

Sure. It isn't hard.

[K Town]

Originally Posted by Dave_M

Sure. It isn't hard.

Could you please show me?

All kidding aside I know the drilling and screwing isn't too hard (The stock set I'm running right now had no holes to accommodate the variances in AK receivers) but all the guides posted showing the install showcases the process on handguards which are accessible from both sides. I have yet to see anyone post or elaborate on an install into a solid stock.

Dave_M and gillian_seed (OP), if you feel this sling mount discussion is derailing the thread, shoot me a PM and I'll take this topic over to the existing AK sling thread.

[Jippo]

Originally Posted by gillian_seed

Wow, I've never heard of the TACO before. They look great (not to mention I love the name)! I think I might buy some, where did you get yours, online?

I have TACO's which I use mainly with 7.62x39 plastic magazines which are even a bit larger than the steel ones. They work superbly. I can recommend them. Retention is very good and they are as fast to use as a pouch can be. I even use them with plastic H&K 308 mags which are huge.

As far as flashider goes, shoot the one you have in the dark. And shoot it with the intended ammunition. If it is Russian original there is a good chance it is good enough for the use you are considering. In my experience you will see some flash but I don't find disturbing as it rather dim and it is directed to side and front, not in the sight picture. YMMV, so it is better to test it out. If you are really concerned about the fellow shooters, keeping it may not be an option to you, but I do have various brakes on my guns regardless. Despite what you may hear, most brakes also reduce flash compared to a clean barrel. They are just not as good as a good flash hider in hiding the flash. But I do run my guns in the dark with NVD's too without problems.

[Bob Ghengis Khan]

All kidding aside I know the drilling and screwing isn't too hard (The stock set I'm running right now had no holes to accommodate the variances in AK receivers) but all the guides posted showing the install showcases the process on handguards which are accessible from both sides. I have yet to see anyone post or elaborate on an install into a solid stock.

Is the folding stock different internally than a fixed Warsaw length stock? My fixed polymer stock is hollow on the inside.

[96 SS]

Yes. Poly folders are different on the inside.