Optic Suggestion for SCAR 17S

[BushmasterFanBoy]

Hello everyone,

I was wondering if anyone had any optic suggestions for a SCAR 17S with the standard barrel length. I currently have an Aimpoint Comp M4S. My budget on this would be about $3,000. I was looking at some pictures and it looks like some individuals overseas are using some version of the ELCAN. Does anyone know what type of ELCAN this is?
I would be open to pretty much any suggestion. I am looking for an optic with some magnification to it. My local range goes out to 400 yards so I would like an optic that would fall in line with that distance, but yet still have the ability to shoot quickly at targets in close like I can with an Aimpoint.
As usual thank you all for the valuable information!

[VooDoo6Actual]

The SOCOM Units are using Elcan Specter DR.

1X4 here:
http://www.elcansightingsystems.com/...ecterDR1x4.pdf

1.5X6 here:
http://www.elcansightingsystems.com/...terDR1.5x6.pdf


My choice thus far after T&Eing various Optics including Elcan Specter DR SU-230/PVS is the NF 2.5x10x24 w/ MD.



FWIW, while at first it did function correctly eventually it did develop a POI/POA shift approx. 1.5"<

The NF 2.5x10x24 has been a precision optic that I'm continually impressed with.

Good luck on your quest.

As always YMMV...

[Alaskapopo]

I was running a NF 2.5-10 LV reticle on mine with a Aimpoint R1 in an off set mount. It worked well enough but I missed the Nightforce on my Larue Stealth .223 precision rifle. So now my SCAR 17 wears a TR24 1-4 Accupoint until I can afford a Leopold 1.1-8 scope.
Pat

[shootist~]

Originally Posted by HOPLOETHOS

....

FWIW, while at first it did function correctly eventually it did develop a POI/POA shift approx. 1.5"<

...

HOPLOETHOS,

Can you expand on this? Does the shift occur only when the barrel is hot, or is it something else you are seeing?

[VooDoo6Actual]

Originally Posted by shootist~

HOPLOETHOS,

Can you expand on this? Does the shift occur only when the barrel is hot, or is it something else you are seeing?

There are/were a # of reported POA/POI issues w/ Elcan Spector in the 1st & 2nd generation iterations. They may or may not be still out there in the cybersphere currently. The "NET" is being redacted & mucked with by entities so it's hard to say for sure. Do some Google Fu if you desire more validation/affirmation etc.

I purchased a 3rd generation Elcan DR after talking w/ several active SOCOM types, "other" people in the know & one of the principle's who actually helped design the Elcan Spector DR. I was adequantly convinced that the issues had been remedied/rectified/resolved in it's design by the 3rd gen. etc. Unfortunately it has not.

I liked the glass, compactness, reticle, illumination & general attributes of the optic. In shooting my SCAR 17S on many occasions & many different atmospheric conditions I noticed a perceivable change in my shot groups developing.
I was dissapointed & concerned. While it may not matter to others & their standards may be different in all fairness. I zeroed it @ 4x & was pleased w/ the groups I was getting. Better than the "SH" tests yielded in reality. But @ 1x the groups and placement were fugly.

In the end the shot placements I was experiencing were off approx. 1.5" from my POA to POI when flipping from 1x4 or 4x1.
I'm told by those in the know that it is a inherant design gremlin in the switching/flip mechanism of the unit's prism design. Something was mentioned in our initial conversation with the design engineer about the alignment of the prisms' mechanism as it relates to the reticles' index/referrence point that switches from 1x to 4x mode. Seems to be the culprit from my experiences & observations.

I like the Elcan Spector & tried to settle on it's inherant issues. However, in any critical shot placement scenario or even non critical for that matter (i.e. denying concealment/cover, Grape or Hostage(s) ) I do not have confidence that I could make that shot that I typically do have. Here's an example of how FUBAR that can be: In a gunfight/two way range @ a close distance and Tango/Booger Eater is behind concealment or cover. I can see just enough from my position or vectoring slightly. I can take a shot and get a grape shot. BUT I take shot and don't need to so I stay on 1x or forget to flip to 4X where Optic is zeroed. Can't make Grape shot accurately so Tango/Booger eater gets away or lives long enough to give Dirt Knap to me/principle/teammate/others etc. How is that a win ? Epic fail in my book.

The NF 2.5x10x24 has been the panacea for me to those issues & VERY content w/ that glass. Robust, clear, easy to pick up visually, good eye relief, etc. I prefer the variable over fixed so I can get a better visual on Target ID, threat matrix, background etc.
I have & tried NF 1x4 as well but prefer the 2.5x10. You may find you want a Doc Optic/Burris/Leupy RDS for close work etc. As well.
BTW, it's hard to find NF 2.5x10x24 as it's not available on civi market from NF. Active MIL yes, so if not in that club currently the secondary market is the path.

As far as the weight issue it's a non-sequitor for me. NF is 17-19 ozs. Elcan Spector approx. 25-25 ozs. depending on which manual/source you confirm.

Here's a link that is more truth than fiction. I know "FG" & he has always been straight up w/ me. He is a "PI" as well where he lives & we have done some work together in the past. I'm fairly certain it has been linked here before but in case you have not seen it etc.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Number=1836640

here's a manual below for the 1.5-6x for edification etc.
http://www.eurooptic.com/PDF/Elcan-S...5x6-Manual.pdf

As always YMMV
HTH

[VooDoo6Actual]

Obvious glitch kindly delete.

[VooDoo6Actual]

Trpl Tap kindly delete.

[Failure2Stop]

My vote would go toward a 1-6x or possibly a 1-8x, but that's based on my application. What is your application?

[QuietShootr]

Mine is used as a general purpose fighting gun, not a DMR or for precision work. With that in mind I settled on a pair of optics, an Aimpoint M3 and a TA11H-308G. The ACOG stays on most of the time. It's not optimal for very close range but I can make it work. Where it really shines is giving a little magnification for PID and for checking a situation out a little more closely. If I could flip it to true 1x and leave the horseshoe dot intact I'd have no reason ever to switch to the Aimpoint.

I have both optics in ADM mounts so I can switch back and forth at will without tearing up the rail, and I have the positions marked in different color paint pens on the rail so I know where the optic was zeroed.

[Pistolero]

Since you can't get the 2.5-10x24's anymore, I'm waiting for the S&B 1-8, although I have been since 2010. Just don't like the added size of the 2.5-10x32.

[El Cid]

I have no experience with the other glass mentioned in this thread. But I positively love my Swarovski Z6i 1-6! Whenever I get a .308 rifle I'll be looking to get another Z6i for it.

[BushmasterFanBoy]

Originally Posted by Failure2Stop

My vote would go toward a 1-6x or possibly a 1-8x, but that's based on my application. What is your application?

Just general range use. I like doing up close drills at close distance, but then I also like to do some longer shots. My local gun range goes out to 400 yards, so I like to try to ring some steel at those ranges as well. So far the Comp M4S has been fine, but the steel plate at 400 was rather large. I would like something with some magnification.

Also another question, are those Elcan sights calibrated for the 7.62 round and can they be had in flat dark earth? I did some Google searching and didn't turn anything up.
Thanks!

[Voodoo_Man]

Originally Posted by Failure2Stop

My vote would go toward a 1-6x or possibly a 1-8x, but that's based on my application. What is your application?

Z6i

[FNBlack]

Originally Posted by BushmasterFanBoy

Also another question, are those Elcan sights calibrated for the 7.62 round and can they be had in flat dark earth? I did some Google searching and didn't turn anything up.

Here's the latest production SOCOM FDE in 7.62. The HD indicates that it has been beefed up to handle the MK17 (Scar Heavy).

[shootist~]

I'll second the NF 2.5-10 for distance and general shooting. I robbed a 2.5-10x32 off my 18" A/R for initial use on a SCAR 17. Zeroed it Saturday and tweaked my Android "Shooter" ballistics; and shot a CQBish match Sunday. It may just stay on the 17.

I ran it today to 700M with a 1st round cold-bore hit on a 12" gong - although that's stretching things for the surplus 7.62 ammo I'm using. (The 2nd shot was just wide and the third hit the head of the club's 8" mini IPSC gong I was wired to - cutting my fancy bailing wire hanger).

10x is handy if you want a good read on your ammo/rifle/shooter capabilities. With your budget, it could be a T&E setup. From today:



At 200M: 5 @ 2.5" for 1.1 MOA.


At 385M, 5 ran 7 1/4":

[VooDoo6Actual]

Originally Posted by shootist~

I'll second the NF 2.5-10 for distance and general shooting. I robbed a 2.5-10x32 off my 18" A/R for initial use on a SCAR 17. Zeroed it Saturday and tweaked my Android "Shooter" ballistics; and shot a CQBish match Sunday. It may just stay on the 17.

I ran it today to 700M with a 1st round cold-bore hit on a 12" gong - although that's stretching things for the surplus 7.62 ammo I'm using. (The 2nd shot was just wide and the third hit the head of the club's 8" mini IPSC gong I was wired to - cutting my fancy bailing wire hanger).

10x is handy if you want a good read on your ammo/rifle/shooter capabilities. With your budget, it could be a T&E setup. From today:

Outstanding !

I was hoping you were listening to my experience/intel w/ my Elcan Specter DR as I read your request to elaborate last week.
Nice shooting & I'm getting pretty much the same results. You gotta love that kind of groups @ 200M !
Seems to really complement the SCAR 17S for pragmatic applications imo.

As always the Leupy, Z6 & S&B are great options as well.
I do like the 10x ability of the NF too.

YMMV....

[shootist~]

Originally Posted by HOPLOETHOS

Outstanding !

I was hoping you were listening to my experience/intel w/ my Elcan Specter DR as I read your request to elaborate last week.

Yes I did. Related to those comments - after zeroing the 17S I ran some groups on steel with the NF at 2.5x (at 100 & 200) and at 6x at 200, 300 & 385 meters - if there is any shift in POA/POI, it's not enough for me to notice.

The 50/200 zero actually works for this rifle/ammo combination, btw. From prone/bipod at 50, it's about perfect at a blond-one high.

[Tzoid]

I just ordered a Leupold Mark 6 - 1-6x20 for my SCAR 17S and I need to decide on a mount. I know the top rail on the SCAR is higher than an AR/M4 rail so I'm leaning towards a LaRue QD LT807-34. This rail looks as if I can mount the scope with the levers on the right and the height is set for 1.375" other LaRue mounts are 1.535” height.

Does anyone have any input on this or can confirm if I'm on the right track?

The Scope is 34mm .

Mount
http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-t...nt-qd-lt807-34

[temecula]

Aimpoint Pro is fine . that what i have for now

[shootist~]

Originally Posted by Tzoid

I just ordered a Leupold Mark 6 - 1-6x20 for my SCAR 17S and I need to decide on a mount. I know the top rail on the SCAR is higher than an AR/M4 rail so I'm leaning towards a LaRue QD LT807-34. This rail looks as if I can mount the scope with the levers on the right and the height is set for 1.375" other LaRue mounts are 1.535” height.

Does anyone have any input on this or can confirm if I'm on the right track?

The Scope is 34mm .

Mount
http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-t...nt-qd-lt807-34

At 34mm plus the added diameter of the eyepiece, (half the actual OD is below the line of sight), it may be too close to call for clearing the rear irons. My ADM Delta mount at ~1.4" and 30mm is really close with the rear bell on a NF 2.5-10x32.

I suggest you give LaRue a call. AFAIK the 17's rail, while higher above the bore, is not higher above line of sight or the BUIS.