New Rifle in the Southwest

[AZ-Renegade]

There is a new patrol rifle being fielded by Border Patrol Agents [Tucson Sector].

Designated the M14E, the picture below is one of the second generation M14s of the USBP Heavy Patrol Rifle Program. This program was started in order to deploy a weapons platform utilizing a cartridge with barrier penetration capabilities superior to the .223 round currently used in service M4A1s. This need was in part due to the rise in near misses by vehicular assault.

The decision to utilize the M14 platform was due to the fact that USBP already had a number of M14s available in storage. We hope in the future to upgrade to an AR platform in 7.62 or [God willing] SCAR 17s.

The first generation of this program consisted of an M14 outfitted with a 3.5x ACOG, Troy Industries Battle Chassis, Troy BUIS, LMT SOPMOD Stocks, Grip Pod and Smith Enterprise Vortex flash suppressor on a 16 inch barrel. These were HEAVY and looked like something out of Starship Troopers.


The second generation of the M14E has the following:

3.5x ACOG on a receiver mount

FDE Vltor M14 Stock

FDE Magpul CTR with cheek riser and enhanced buttpad

Sadlak Extended Magazine Catch

Smith Enterprises flash suppressor and bolt release,

Tangodown Battle Grip

VTAC Sling

GG&G Bipod

16" Barrel.


This setup is lighter than its predecessor, but is still pretty heavy. I do miss my issued M4 when climbing hills.

While the Vltor stock makes the M14 more ergonomic, I find it also makes an already nose heavy rifle even more so. You really have to tuck in the stock when reloading.

Also, the lack of iron sights is of concern. For our purposes, I would have preffered a scout mount with scout scope or RDS with the iron sights still in place.

It was hammered into us that this IS NOT a DMR type rifle, even though the choice of optics would seem to suggest otherwise. While they aren't tack drivers, they are definitely combat-accurate to 500 yards.

[BUBBAGUNS]

For all the cost to upgrade these weapons, would it not have been cheaper to buy an AR style rifle in .308.

[DeltaSierra]

What was the base weapon used for this project?

What exactly led the Tucson Sector to go this route, as opposed to the SCAR or AR .308 type rifle? Is this project strictly being implemented in Tucson, or is it an agency wide program?

[96 SS]

I assume that the 16" barrel was previously done in version 1? I love the look but it would seem that going to 16" would negate some of the benefits of the .308 in the first place.

I like the utility of the stock system and the ability to add modern optics etc, but as you said, it is an interesting choice.
I would still love to own one for kicks and giggles.

[GTifosi]

Originally Posted by DeltaSierra

What was the base weapon used for this project?

Originally Posted by AZ-Renegade

The decision to utilize the M14 platform was due to the fact that USBP already had a number of M14s available in storage.

.....

[HackerF15E]

Originally Posted by DeltaSierra

What was the base weapon used for this project?

Judging by the rifle's name, "M14E", it would be a good guess that it would be an M14.

[RogerinTPA]

Originally Posted by BUBBAGUNS

For all the cost to upgrade these weapons, would it not have been cheaper to buy an AR style rifle in .308.

Agreed...and more reliable alternatives with available parts. Hell keeping the M-14s stock with a scope mount and scope of there choice, would have been the best economical alternative.

[DJK]

Originally Posted by DeltaSierra

What exactly led the Tucson Sector to go this route, as opposed to the SCAR or AR .308 type rifle?

"The decision to utilize the M14 platform was due to the fact that USBP already had a number of M14s available in storage. We hope in the future to upgrade to an AR platform in 7.62 or [God willing] SCAR 17s."

[BigBuckeye]

Originally Posted by RogerinTPA

Agreed...and more reliable alternatives with available parts. Hell keeping the M-14s stock with a scope mount and scope of there choice, would have been the best economical alternative.

You think? I figure they have around a $1k in upgrades...take off the Acog and bipod of course as those would also be expenses on the AR...

[DeltaSierra]

Originally Posted by HackerF15E

Judging by the rifle's name, "M14E", it would be a good guess that it would be an M14.

I'm asking where these M14s came from. Are they USGI, or commercial?

[AZ-Renegade]

Originally Posted by DeltaSierra

I'm asking where these M14s came from. Are they USGI, or commercial?

These are Vietnam Era, re-arsenaled USGI rifles that BP had in storage. They started life as full auto capable, full length rifles and now have the full auto disconnect. The one pictured was manufactured by Winchester.

At the time this program started, I was told that it was cheaper to upgrade the M14s we already had than to put a new system through field testing.

I think this was before CBP Air and Marine adopted the SCAR 17.

This rifle was described as, "holding the door open" for another 7.62 platform. According to USBP HQ, it was this or nothing, and our Office of Training Development really wanted to get a 7.62 platform in the field.

While this is an OTD project, to my knowledge, these have only been fielded in limited numbers throughout Tucson Sector.

[AZ-Renegade]

Originally Posted by 96 SS

I assume that the 16" barrel was previously done in version 1? I love the look but it would seem that going to 16" would negate some of the benefits of the .308 in the first place.

I like the utility of the stock system and the ability to add modern optics etc, but as you said, it is an interesting choice.
I would still love to own one for kicks and giggles.

The original version was also 16 inch.

[kmrtnsn]

Is this a TCA or a TUS thing? I know this didn't come out of Benning.

[AZ-Renegade]

Originally Posted by kmrtnsn

Is this a TCA or a TUS thing? I know this didn't come out of Benning.

The guys from OTD in Harpers Ferry developed the program/rifle.

[kmrtnsn]

Originally Posted by AZ-Renegade

The guys from OTD in Harpers Ferry developed the program/rifle.

Thank God it wasn't Sector or station funds. Personally, I wouldn't carry it and I used to work that AOR.

[VooDoo6Actual]

Originally Posted by AZ-Renegade

These are Vietnam Era, re-arsenaled USGI rifles that BP had in storage. They started life as full auto capable, full length rifles and now have the full auto disconnect. The one pictured was manufactured by Winchester.

At the time this program started, I was told that it was cheaper to upgrade the M14s we already had than to put a new system through field testing.

I think this was before CBP Air and Marine adopted the SCAR 17.

This rifle was described as, "holding the door open" for another 7.62 platform. According to USBP HQ, it was this or nothing, and our Office of Training Development really wanted to get a 7.62 platform in the field.

While this is an OTD project, to my knowledge, these have only been fielded in limited numbers throughout Tucson Sector.

AZ-Renegade/"D",

What is the weight ? (I have my own numbers in mind just curious) I can understand why they want more penetration. I enjoyed my EBR & JAE but they are beasts when on a patrol/RECCE/Track in that heat....Even my LMT MWS or FAL feels significantly lighter albeit maybe 2 lbs or so.

I also know that CA F&G recently switched to 7.62 platform as well.

TIA

[AZ-Renegade]

You are definetely working in a support role carrying one of these. Chasing down illegals with one is an exercise in futility.

They are more suited for overwatch than patrol.

[AZ-Renegade]

Hop,

According to our scale, 13.15lbs [loaded].

[VooDoo6Actual]

Appreciated Amigo

w/ Loaded Mag & Optics or Mag not loaded ?

thx

[AZ-Renegade]

Originally Posted by HOPLOETHOS

Appreciated Amigo

w/ Loaded Mag & Optics or Mag not loaded ?

thx

With loaded mag, optic and sling. Without bipod.