Colts Suck? Can it be?

[Jon G23]

I know a class2 guy who has built so many AR's it's scarey. He has built full auto as well as semi auto and short bbl's as well as 16 and 20". I emailed to ask who he recommends for the best lowers and he said Colt would be last and to go with Stag or Bushy or RRA!!!

After researching here, a lot.... it seems that feeling is just the opposite of many on here. Could he feel that way just because Colt has differant sized mounting holes? ( I think thats one thing he said about the colts ).

Any ideas why a guy with literally 100's of AR builds under his belt might feel that way?? I'm really curious!

No I am not a troll.. I just really want to know as much as possible before buying something.

Thanks all!

[C4IGrant]

Originally Posted by Jon G23

I know a class2 guy who has built so many AR's it's scarey. He has built full auto as well as semi auto and short bbl's as well as 16 and 20". I emailed to ask who he recommends for the best lowers and he said Colt would be last and to go with Stag or Bushy or RRA!!!

After researching here, a lot.... it seems that feeling is just the opposite of many on here. Could he feel that way just because Colt has differant sized mounting holes? ( I think thats one thing he said about the colts ).

Any ideas why a guy with literally 100's of AR builds under his belt might feel that way?? I'm really curious!

No I am not a troll.. I just really want to know as much as possible before buying something.

Thanks all!

Uh full of crap comes to mind. I am guessing that the dealer sold Stag/RRA and BM and not Colt???

There are only two true tier 1 manufacturers (FN and Colt). Everyone else is pretty much tier 2.


C4

[Jon G23]

Originally Posted by C4IGrant

Uh full of crap comes to mind. I am guessing that the dealer sold Stag/RRA and BM and not Colt???

There are only two true tier 1 manufacturers (FN and Colt). Everyone else is pretty much tier 2.


C4

He builds (or did) them in his home shop. He has no store front. I have no idea why he feels that way. I'll try and pick his brain when I have time. I always really guessed that Colt probably was top notch. So what's the story with their special size holes though? Is that the same on their LE models too?

And... I wonder about Mid length... do they have one in a M4 style or would I have to buy a new upper if I wanted that feature on a Colt lower?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Jon

[rbxb]

My local Gunsmith (who I beleive knows his stuff!) says the same thing Re: Colt being at the lower end of the food chain.....On the verge of replacing my Sporter with a 16" CAR I too have been in search of the holy grail of the 16" AR 5.56mm. Everybody has their own opinion about whos is crap & whos is best. & the ones who say such & such makes the best, theres always a "but" " but" their lowers arent that good" etc or Get an RRA cuz they have a Wilson barrel" etc blah blah blah.
Here's what I know.
Every Colt I've owned or handled had a superior finish -so much that you take it for granted until you examine brand X.
every Colt I've handled/owned had smooth action & good fit & finish. It didnt come with an apology.
Yes -Colt is a little more expensive.
The one off brand that gets my attention the most (outa the box) Is the new Smith & Wesson. It has most of the features I expect & a reasonable price along with a "name", read that "warranty" But after handling one the finish is subpar & SAW wont touch it for M4feedramp mods cuz its not a Colt..........
Seems like the deeper I dig & the more enlightened I become all roads point back to Colt.........
go ahead .........flame away

[ChromeLined]

I beleive this evry one puts out lemons from time to time..also with all the problems you hear no one ever goes into much detail on how theve maintained the rifle no matter what manufacturer.Those of us who know..know that you dont trust your life to a weapon especially an AR until youve run a couple of thosand rouds through it with no malfunctions and are completely sure the mags being used are good.Second not every one has the smae maintinance habits.I took a class where the average rounds down the pipe for 5 days was between 700 to 100 rounds.

After 2 days a kid was having failures to feed and eject..the problem..after every day he shot he should have cleaned his weapon and if not it might have not been a problem had he lubed the rifle good every day as it was bone dry when the problems started..next it was new out of the box so everything is stiff and tight until you get some rounds down the pipe.

Was it the rifles fault NO,was it a quality problem or lemon...NO..it was inexperience and lack of knowledge on the users part that made the wepon go down.No matter brand unless the parts are out of spec and real crappy quality the rifle shouldnt go down if your doing everything right.My point is when something goes wrong in any AR its either a bad mag,or operator or end user problem.

aka no knowledge of weapon system and how to maintain it.To prove my point the last 2 days of the class I didnt clean my Bushmaster but kept it lubed and it functioned dirty but flawless and so did his Colt after I showed him what it needs to keep going and he too had no more problems.

[rbxb]

Originally Posted by ChromeLined

I beleive this evry one puts out lemons from time to time..also with all the problems you hear no one ever goes into much detail on how theve maintained the rifle no matter what manufacturer.Those of us who know..know that you dont trust your life to a weapon especially an AR until youve run a couple of thosand rouds through it with no malfunctions and are completely sure the mags being used are good.Second not every one has the smae maintinance habits.I took a class where the average rounds down the pipe for 5 days was between 700 to 100 rounds.

After 2 days a kid was having failures to feed and eject..the problem..after every day he shot he should have cleaned his weapon and if not it might have not been a problem had he lubed the rifle good every day as it was bone dry when the problems started..next it was new out of the box so everything is stiff and tight until you get some rounds down the pipe.

Was it the rifles fault NO,was it a quality problem or lemon...NO..it was inexperience and lack of knowledge on the users part that made the wepon go down.No matter brand unless the parts are out of spec and real crappy quality the rifle shouldnt go down if your doing everything right.My point is when something goes wrong in any AR its either a bad mag,or operator or end user problem.

aka no knowledge of weapon system and how to maintain it.To prove my point the last 2 days of the class I didnt clean my Bushmaster but kept it lubed and it functioned dirty but flawless and so did his Colt after I showed him what it needs to keep going and he too had no more problems.

Well put Chromelined. I fully agree. In todays modern world , most often, problems are operator errors. BTW. I didnt mean to belittle the opinions of all the helpful folks on these forums. I'm just a noobie trying to assimilate all this info into something productive for my needs...

[M4arc]

I think a lot of people dislike Colt because they believe Colt has an anti-civilian policy. I won't get into all of that but their argument that Colt is technically and mechanically inferior is completely bogus in my opinion.

When professional trainers, who see hundreds of students and hundreds of thousands of rounds each year say that Colts are more reliable/suffer less problems I listen.

There are exceptions to the rule; my frankengun (aka The Mutt) has been flawless for over 10K rounds and through several classes without issue. However, I built it , maintain it and keep well lubed. I use quality USGI mags and good ammo.

I've seen Bushmasters, Armalites, RRAs, Mutts and Olympics run great. I've seen Colts and LMTs fail or have serious reliability issues but the odds are the Colts will be the best out of the box. That information comes from people pulling the triggers not building lowers in their basement (no offense to your friend).

[rbxb]

Originally Posted by M4arc

I think a lot of people dislike Colt because they believe Colt has an anti-civilian policy. I won't get into all of that but their argument that Colt is technically and mechanically inferior is completely bogus in my opinion.

When professional trainers, who see hundreds of students and hundreds of thousands of rounds each year say that Colts are more reliable/suffer less problems I listen.

There are exceptions to the rule; my frankengun (aka The Mutt) has been flawless for over 10K rounds and through several classes without issue. However, I built it , maintain it and keep well lubed. I use quality USGI mags and good ammo.

I've seen Bushmasters, Armalites, RRAs, Mutts and Olympics run great. I've seen Colts and LMTs fail or have serious reliability issues but the odds are the Colts will be the best out of the box. That information comes from people pulling the triggers not building lowers in their basement (no offense to your friend).

Spoken like a true gentleman & scholar. Thats the most practical, concise, intelligent response to date.....

[dukduk]

it seems like the dealers who don't or can't carry colts say they are trash but the ones who do swear by them...sounds like FTF trolling to me or good retail marketing, who cares i'm getting the pony!

[HAMMERDROP]

Everybody makes one and everything has one these days.
No matter what kind of effort is made in doing something
correctly everytime, something can go fubar and the 'end-user'
(my word of the day it seems) pays the price. I dont own a 'Tier 1' AR
and thats not to say I wouldn't jump at the chance but I am satisfied with
fit, function and finish on my RRA's -pre logo carbines.
Check this out I have fed my python over 80 live rats in the last 6 years -
yes dear I do keep track. All without a hitch well guess what happened last feed ?
ID10T ERROR MAJOR !
No he's not in the freezer.
My point is all systems can fail. The 'end user' must take preventitive measures
to ensure reliablility with all things dangerous. Or have a bunch of band-aids !

[rob_s]

Again, what you are paying for with Colt is the quality control. Yes, anyone can make a lemon, but the chances of getting a Colt lemon are literally hundreds of times lower than getting a lemon from someone else.

[LukeMacGillie]

I own 2 bushy's, an RRA and an Essential.

Looking for a Colt small pin for my next build, im holding off on sending in my SBR paperwork till I find that lower.

[QuietShootr]

Sherluk and Model 1 build a lot of ARs in a year, too.

[VA_Dinger]

Originally Posted by M4arc

I think a lot of people dislike Colt because they believe Colt has an anti-civilian policy. I won't get into all of that but their argument that Colt is technically and mechanically inferior is completely bogus in my opinion.

When professional trainers, who see hundreds of students and hundreds of thousands of rounds each year say that Colts are more reliable/suffer less problems I listen.

There are exceptions to the rule; my frankengun (aka The Mutt) has been flawless for over 10K rounds and through several classes without issue. However, I built it , maintain it and keep well lubed. I use quality USGI mags and good ammo.

I've seen Bushmasters, Armalites, RRAs, Mutts and Olympics run great. I've seen Colts and LMTs fail or have serious reliability issues but the odds are the Colts will be the best out of the box. That information comes from people pulling the triggers not building lowers in their basement (no offense to your friend).

Thats simply an outstanding post.

Asolutely nothing more needs to be said.

[Griz]

I understand where the C2 referenced by the original poster is coming from.

He wasn't asked about complete rifles, he was asked about a (stripped presumably) lower.

If I were buying a *lower* to assemble a new AR, Colt would be at the bottom of my list too.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Griz

I understand where the C2 referenced by the original poster is coming from.

He wasn't asked about complete rifles, he was asked about a (stripped presumably) lower.

If I were buying a *lower* to assemble a new AR, Colt would be at the bottom of my list too.

At least all the Colt lowers I have acquired have the hole for the pistol grip in the right place.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=1419

[rob_s]

Originally Posted by Griz

I understand where the C2 referenced by the original poster is coming from.

He wasn't asked about complete rifles, he was asked about a (stripped presumably) lower.

If I were buying a *lower* to assemble a new AR, Colt would be at the bottom of my list too.

That's a good point. If I was building from scratch I probably wouldn't buy a stripped Colt lower either.

[Bryson]

Originally Posted by Submariner

At least all the Colt lowers I have acquired have the hole for the pistol grip in the right place.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=1419

The lower in that thread you linked to was made by S&W, who subcontract the parts of their rifles out -- CMT makes the uppers and lowers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but CMT also makes parts for Colt.

[The_Biased_Observer]

Likely a result of Colt's history of putting out various non "mil-spec" crap, i.e. large FCG, sear blocked, large hole, high shelf that would frustrate an assembler.

It creates a big hassle down the road when you start wanting to try an m16 carrier etc, different uppers, etc. ...