This just makes me angry - carrying illegally

Severian · #1 05-08-08, 18:18

Here is a thread on another forum, where someone in all seriousness is asking about the "pros and cons" of breaking the law, and carrying a concealed pistol without a valid license.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...y-license.html

It's sad that there are gun owners like this out there. But, when I see stuff like this, it makes me really appreciate the level of professionalism at M4Carbine.net.

Edit: The guy who posted this originally is going back and editing his posts. He said he had a friend who was a "special forces operator" and "CHP firearms instructor" who was telling his students and family that it was up to them whether or not they complied with state law and applied for their license. He said that as a result, several of his other friends had decided to carry without a license, because they did not want to be on a government list of gunowners. He is asking about the pros-and-cons of carrying illegally.

Sry0fcr · #2 05-08-08, 18:34

That's kind of stupid, why carry illegally when you can relatively easily get a permit? I can only kinda sorta justify if one is prohibited by law in the first place but I'm one of those nut jobs that believe that non violent felonies and "domestic" misdemeanors shouldn't prohibit you in the first place.

Severian · #3 05-08-08, 19:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sry0fcr

That's kind of stupid, why carry illegally when you can relatively easily get a permit?

Exactly... In his resident state of Texas, he can easily obtain a license to carry concealed. However, he is saying that the wife and son of his "CHP instructor" friend are choosing to carry illegally in order to avoid leaving a paper trail for the government. This "instructor" is informing his students that it is "up to them" whether or not they chose to obtain a license and comply with state law.

It's one thing for a rouge person to carry illegally... It's another matter entirely if an instructor is informing his students that complying with the law is merely a personal choice, subject to one's personal feelings and paranoia of government... And some of his CHP class students are choosing to disobey the law as a result.

Severian · #4 05-08-08, 19:40

Well nevermind I guess... His thread was deleted.

RyanB · #5 05-08-08, 20:18

I have and still will carry illegally where I cannot carry legally if I believe it is warranted. But systematically avoiding the simple act of acquiring a license for that reason is stupid and he ought to lose his certification.

live2offroad · #6 05-08-08, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sry0fcr

That's kind of stupid, why carry illegally when you can relatively easily get a permit? I can only kinda sorta justify if one is prohibited by law in the first place but I'm one of those nut jobs that believe that non violent felonies and "domestic" misdemeanors shouldn't prohibit you in the first place.

What state are you in? Here, in the land of sun and oppression, carry permits are as rare as intelligent politicians.

-Peter

Misc Ex-Member · #7 05-08-08, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanB

I have and still will carry illegally where I cannot carry legally if I believe it is warranted. But systematically avoiding the simple act of acquiring a license for that reason is stupid and he ought to lose his certification.

I agree with you. I strive to obey the law and follow the rules but if I deem it appropriate to be armed then I will be armed.

usaffarmer · #8 05-09-08, 00:15

In Alaska we dont need a permit by law to carry. The "smart" ones still get the ccw and learn the laws. There is one shop in Anchorage that still does classes and they are normally booked 2 months out for the class. It is ran year round once a month.

rhino · #9 05-09-08, 02:22

I do not advocate breaking any laws.

However, "legal" is not the same thing as "right" and "illegal" is not always "wrong."

Certainly if a license or permit to carry is available and required, one should avail one's self of the documention. The problem is, there are states and parts of states where it is impossible (or virtually so) to get a valid license or permit to carry. Illinois is one such place.

My personal opinion is that you'd have to be an idiot to be in urban areas in Illinois unarmed. For some, moving away or not going there is not a viable choice. They need to make tough decisions.

**Army Chief** · #10 05-09-08, 04:37

I've got a lot of respect for Rhino's position.

Personally, I feel like we have an obligation to pursue CCW in accordance with the law when provision has been made for it. In cases where no provision is made, it becomes an individual decision -- just be forewarned that what might otherwise be philosophical civil disobedience is usually going to be branded as criminal conduct when it comes to going about armed.

Consider your risk tolerance and need-to-carry in those situations, but if you feel the need to do something outside of the legal boundaries, a prudent man would keep that decision to himself. He surely shouldn't be publically encouraging others to do the same.

Chief

variablebinary · #11 05-09-08, 04:42

You gotta do what you gotta do.

The right to self defense is God given.

Failure2Stop · #12 05-09-08, 09:35

A man does what needs to be done.
Usually that means following the law to the letter. It may mean breaking the law when the situation dictates. But every action must be made with moral justification, honor, and responsibility. There are things in this world that are worth sacrificing my life, my safety, and my freedom for. However, I will not needlessley loose those things or my ability to protect those things by making a habit of breaking laws, nor would I advise others to do so.

What if you do wind up shooting someone when you are carrying illegally? What is your post-shooting plan? Wait for the cops to show up (are you going to call them)? Or are you going to run?
If you stay and wait for the cops, you are going to jail. You will be a felon. You will lose your right to own firearms. Your sphincter becomes a trampoline.
So instead, you run. Now you become a suspect in a homicide, and you will probably be caught. In the eyes of the law you are a murderer, and you will be punished as one. See consequences above, just for a longer period of time.

If you have such a moral issue with your state's carry laws that you are willing to do time, why not just move? I will not live in a state that denys me the ability to effectively defend my loved ones. I know this is a simplistic statement, but really, what is a bigger inconvienence: finding a new job, buying a new house, and making new friends. -OR- A significant portion of your life spent inside a prison with the scum of the earth and losing the very right you sought to practice.

Pros/Cons of carrying without a permit-
Pros:
Hillary/Obama wont be able to send a squad jack-booted thugs to your doorstep by a search of the CCP database.
Cons:
They will use a different database to find your address.
Tinfoil causes cancer.
Anything you do gets you thrown in jail.

Either way, it is deplorable for an authority figure to advise students to break the law. If someone comes to the decision on their own, that's one thing, but to feed them tinfoil-hat logic is downright disgusting.

So. . . whatever.

OldNavyGuy · #13 05-09-08, 10:37

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

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how can anyone carry concealed ILLEGALLY when the above is all the permit anyone needs, and a permit issued by the .gov to carry IS an infringement

Misc Ex-Member · #14 05-09-08, 10:52

www.m4carbine.net does not advocate the breaking of any laws, federal, state or local.

It is up to every individual to responsibly exercise their right to keep and bear arms.